IDPA Nationals

[leadaddict]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:35 AM, Racinready300ex said:

People that shot the match should probably email HQ with there issues. It'll probably fall on deaf ears. But if everyone just says stuff like the generic what a great match and thanks to the sponsors. HQ will assume it was great and everyone liked it, so why change anything. 

 

Yes, if you are an IDPA member please let them know what you did, and did not, like about the match. This was my first time being at IDPA Nationals so I'm not familiar with how it's been done in the past. However, I have heard that they are already planning on changes to the squading and scheduling for next year.  Now is a great time for constructive input.

As an SO at the match, I agree that it felt rushed and I didn't like "pushing" competitors through two walk-throughs at once. I've already talked to a few people and will email the MD in the coming weeks with my thoughts on making the match run smoother and be more enjoyable for everyone next time.  Cameo should shave 9 more private bays completed soon.  Lack of bays cannot be any excuse!

I had not heard of any controversy with Coley's PE.  What happened there?

All that said, I had a great time at my first Nationals! I will definitely be applying to return as staff again next year.  This was the first time I'd met the Match Director, Seth Hayden.  Super nice guy and I'm sure his matches will only get better.

[Steppenwolf]

JJ said in his interview on TFBTV (posted 9/22) and in another blurb about the new Beretta "Defensive" pistol that he shot IDPA maybe 20 years ago and that he was shooting at IDPA Nationals in order to introduce the new Defensive model to the world (and it was built "driven" for IDPA). He said he called Bob Vogel and some other high-level shooter (I forgot the name) that he knew to get IDPA advice. I think he said Vogel told him "go for Down 0's".

 

 

[MarilynMonbro]

23 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Wait, you can appeal safety related DQ's in IDPA?????

 

Yeah I guess.  I don't see anything in the rule book against it.  It says evidence and witnesses can be used in the written appeal.  It also says the AC chooses shooters who are certified safety officers. I saw a post that said they picked spectators. Is that actually true or just a rumor?

[Jeff O]

 

[Jeff O]

43 minutes ago, MarilynMonbro said:

 

Yeah I guess.  I don't see anything in the rule book against it.  It says evidence and witnesses can be used in the written appeal.  It also says the AC chooses shooters who are certified safety officers. I saw a post that said they picked spectators. Is that actually true or just a rumor?

They did, in fact, choose spectators.

[matteekay]

15 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

In a sense it's probably better there weren't any options given the way they did the walk throughs. You probably wouldn't of had the time to really come up with the best plan anyway. 

 

You're not wrong, lol.

 

 

12 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

There were usually two choices, occasionally more.  You could take long or tight or long tight shots with little movement, or make a lot of movement to get open shots.   An Expert could do it the hard way, a Marksman would be better off to do it the slow way to avoid NTs, hard cover, and misses.  A Sharpshooter was going to have to think whether he felt lucky today.

 

This is how I try to design my stages. Honestly, working with way less space on an indoor range, I typically pull it off better than what I saw at Nats.

 

 

6 hours ago, leadaddict said:

All that said, I had a great time at my first Nationals! I will definitely be applying to return as staff again next year.  This was the first time I'd met the Match Director, Seth Hayden.  Super nice guy and I'm sure his matches will only get better.

 

Nice! Which stage were you on?

[SGT_Schultz]

8 hours ago, Jeff O said:

They did, in fact, choose spectators.

 

What would you do if you were the RO overruled like that?

 

I think that I'd never go back if I found out that's how my call was overruled.  Depending on when I found out, I might not have finished the match either.

[Jeff O]

18 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

What would you do if you were the RO overruled like that?

 

I think that I'd never go back if I found out that's how my call was overruled.  Depending on when I found out, I might not have finished the match either.

I told the SO I would have handed them the timer on the spot.

[leadaddict]

8 hours ago, matteekay said:

Nice! Which stage were you on?

I was SSO on Icy River Bank, doing regular SSO duties and pre-"loading" (division capacity mag inserted with chamber empty) on-deck shooters. Pretty sure I spoke to everyone who shot that stage! It had a challenging swinger, tight non-threats, and one of the aforementioned vision barriers. There was definitely more than one way to shoot that stage and would reward you with less movement if you took some tighter shots past non-threats. I saw that this stage had the most hits on NTs in the match as a result.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by leadaddict

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

Duplicate post, ignore this please.

Edited September 30, 2021 by IHAVEGAS

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, IHAVEGAS said:

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

What would you do if you were the RO overruled like that?

 

I think that I'd never go back if I found out that's how my call was overruled.  Depending on when I found out, I might not have finished the match either.

R.O. / S.O. are hosed when something they think of as out of line happens, if they don't grin and bear it then somebody else has to pick up their job duties or things can really get screwed up. You agree to allow yourself to be overruled with no pouting when you pick up the timer. The classiest reaction Ive seen in a similar circumstance is when a competitor and his wife (both cro's but not working the match) just left the match after politely explaining their position to the rm. 

 

[SSGGlock]

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

What would you do if you were the RO overruled like that?

 

I think that I'd never go back if I found out that's how my call was overruled.  Depending on when I found out, I might not have finished the match either.

Oh I would have walked off right there. No reason to be there at that point.

[SGT_Schultz]

32 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

R.O. / S.O. are hosed when something they think of as out of line happens, if they don't grin and bear it then somebody else has to pick up their job duties or things can really get screwed up. You agree to allow yourself to be overruled with no pouting when you pick up the timer. The classiest reaction Ive seen in a similar circumstance is when a competitor and his wife (both cro's but not working the match) just left the match after politely explaining their position to the rm. 

 

You've misunderstood my question, I think.

 

Being overruled at appeal isn't the issue.

 

How the decision was taken is the issue.  At that point match admin owns ALL the consequences of the decision including loss of match staff.

 

Judging from the responses I'm not alone in my perception.

Edited September 30, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[Stuey]

It seems like the RM went out of his way to get the shooter reinstated after the DQ.  

As an SO, I would be a little miffed.  

[IHAVEGAS]

2 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

You've misunderstood my question, I think.

 

Being overruled at appeal isn't the issue.

 

How the decision was taken is the issue.

 

Judging from the responses I'm not alone in my perception.

I understand, and agree.

I just think that when a s.o. quits a match that makes things worse for everyone. 

[Jeff O]

10 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I understand, and agree.

I just think that when a s.o. quits a match that makes things worse for everyone. 

Tough noogies.

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I understand, and agree.

I just think that when a s.o. quits a match that makes things worse for everyone. 

 

I agree it would make things worse.

 

But I don't think I'd blame the RO either. It's certainly a tough situation. The MD or RM needs to support his staff but he also needs to make the correct call. In this instance I feel like the MD may have undercut his staff to play favorites not make the best call. In which case if a RO left I'd put that on the MD. 

[IHAVEGAS]

21 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

But I don't think I'd blame the RO either. It's certainly a tough situation. The MD or RM needs to support his staff but he also needs to make the correct call. In this instance I feel like the MD may have undercut his staff to play favorites not make the best call. In which case if a RO left I'd put that on the MD. 

 

I do not disagree about the s.o.'s motivation, also had I been one of the folks whose hard earned and expensive high finish was tainted by what reads like a financially biased decision I would find it hard to behave.

 

What the s.o. should do is philosophical I suppose, when you sign on to help run a match you receive certain benefits (no match fee, shirts, special prize lotteries, free meals, hotel fees) and you agree to do what you can to help things run smooth and support shooters having a quality match and a fun experience. My personal approach would be to eat crow and finish the match but not come back again. Just me, not saying that is the best. 

[Racinready300ex]

37 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I do not disagree about the s.o.'s motivation, also had I been one of the folks whose hard earned and expensive high finish was tainted by what reads like a financially biased decision I would find it hard to behave.

 

What the s.o. should do is philosophical I suppose, when you sign on to help run a match you receive certain benefits (no match fee, shirts, special prize lotteries, free meals, hotel fees) and you agree to do what you can to help things run smooth and support shooters having a quality match and a fun experience. My personal approach would be to eat crow and finish the match but not come back again. Just me, not saying that is the best. 

 

Yeah, I'd assume if you walk off you should be expecting to not work a IDPA match again. And you probably could be looking at a loss of membership. You should accept the repercussions of that. I'd assume a SO pushed to that point probably wouldn't care, at least not in the moment. 

 

I don't think I'd quit, but I probably wouldn't be back either. I like IDPA but I can't bring myself to travel across the country for Nationals just to shoot it, let alone work it. It's situations like this that keep me from taking IDPA seriously. A similar example, I finished 2nd in my division once at a level 3. The guy that beat me was on my squad. I watched him fail chrono and get a pass. I bet this kind of thing happens a lot in IDPA. 

 

[IHAVEGAS]

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

A similar example, I finished 2nd in my division once at a level 3. The guy that beat me was on my squad. I watched him fail chrono and get a pass.

 

Yeck!!

 

[matteekay]

3 hours ago, leadaddict said:

I was SSO on Icy River Bank, doing regular SSO duties and pre-"loading" (division capacity mag inserted with chamber empty) on-deck shooters. Pretty sure I spoke to everyone who shot that stage! It had a challenging swinger, tight non-threats, and one of the aforementioned vision barriers. There was definitely more than one way to shoot that stage and would reward you with less movement if you took some tighter shots past non-threats. I saw that this stage had the most hits on NTs in the match as a result.

 

 

Oh yeah! My way involved picking up a PE so that was probably not the correct way, lol. My brain was toasty at that point.

 

(I was the only dude shooting a Rhino).

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 you receive certain benefits (no match fee, shirts, special prize lotteries, free meals, hotel fees) 

 

You guys are getting paid?!?

 

 

I heard IDPA actually did a good job of taking care of staff for Nats. I've only worked lower levels and the only benefit was comped entry (but you still had to pay for the extra hotel time yourself).

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, matteekay said:

 

You guys are getting paid?!?

 

 

I heard IDPA actually did a good job of taking care of staff for Nats. I've only worked lower levels and the only benefit was comped entry (but you still had to pay for the extra hotel time yourself).

I was not involved with this match, glad to hear that the s.o.'s were well treated. I have never worked a match where it wasn't a money losing proposition overall and a big loss if you place $ value on your time, except for that lucky turd that wins a super nice gun off of the prize table, but yea I have had lodging fees covered (two per room) and meals and stuff, mostly USPSA. 

[Dr. Phil]

27 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

Oh yeah! My way involved picking up a PE so that was probably not the correct way, lol. My brain was toasty at that point.

 

(I was the only dude shooting a Rhino).

Ahhh aren't you usually the only dude shooting a Rhino? LOL

[leadaddict]

1 hour ago, matteekay said:

(I was the only dude shooting a Rhino).

 

Ah yes... I remember guns much better than names or faces!