IDPA Nationals

[matteekay]

2 hours ago, Dr. Phil said:

Ahhh aren't you usually the only dude shooting a Rhino? LOL

 

There's rumors of some other guy in Texas... but yes, lol.

[Dr. Phil]

YOU DA MAN!!

[matteekay]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Phil said:

YOU DA MAN!!

 

Nah, just *a* man. A Marksman.

 

At least I was. They kicked me out after Nats.

[Dr. Phil]

LOL!

You're still one of my hero's!

[MarilynMonbro]

6 hours ago, Stuey said:

It seems like the RM went out of his way to get the shooter reinstated after the DQ.  

As an SO, I would be a little miffed.  

The match director doesn't handle the appeal, the area coordinator does

 

The appeal happens because the shooter and the match director disagree

[Jeff O]

The match director agreed, they went over his head.

[MarilynMonbro]

6 minutes ago, Jeff O said:

The match director agreed, they went over his head.

 

The MD agreed with what and who went over whose head?

[Jeff O]

6 minutes ago, MarilynMonbro said:

The MD agreed with what and who went over whose head?

 The MD and the AMD both agreed with the DQ.

[MarilynMonbro]

2 minutes ago, Jeff O said:

 The MD and the AMD both agreed with the DQ.

Right, that is what I am saying. That is why the shooter filed the written appeal and $100. It is out of the match directors hands and it goes to the area coordinator at that point 

[Jeff O]

6 minutes ago, MarilynMonbro said:

Right, that is what I am saying. That is why the shooter filed the written appeal and $100. It is out of the match directors hands and it goes to the area coordinator at that point 

 In this case, it evidently went to Beretta.

[ddc]

8 minutes ago, Jeff O said:

 The MD and the AMD both agreed with the DQ.

 

Wow, that looks even worse than I initially thought.

So two SO's, the MD and the AMD all agreed on the DQ and but the AC over ruled everybody?

Who's the AC for that area?

[MarilynMonbro]

2 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

Wow, that looks even worse than I initially thought.

So two SO's, the MD and the AMD all agreed on the DQ and but the AC over ruled everybody?

Who's the AC for that area?

This is what supposed to happen after a Witten appeal

 

10.3.1 After receipt of the written appeal, the MD will deliver the document to the Area Coordinator (AC) of the region

or his delegate, who will act as Lead of the Arbitration Team.

10.3.2 The AC will select a team of 3 shooters (including himself) who are certified Safety Officers to comprise the

Appeals Team. Each member will have one vote. The Appeals Team Members should have no conflict of interest

with the outcome.

10.3.3 The Appeals Team will review the document prepared by the Shooter and will retain the appeal fee until a

decision is made.

10.3.4 The Team may request further information from the shooter, SO, CSO, MD, and witnesses, and may inspect any

stage or area related to the appeal.

10.3.5 The shooter filing the appeal should not initiate communications with any of the parties involved with the issue

or with the Appeals Team after the initial submission of the appeal.

10.3.6 The team will deliberate and render a decision within 1 hour after receipt of the appeal. This will be presented

to the MD and the shooter who filed the appeal.

10.3.7 It is the responsibility of the MD to implement the Appeals Team’s decision.

10.3.8 If the team supports the appeal, this may involve reinstating the shooter, providing the shooter with a reshoot,

eliminating a penalty or withdrawing the stage from the match. In this case, the appeal fee will be returned to

the shooter.

10.3.9 If the team does not support the appeal, the decision of the MD stands and the AC will forward the appeal fee to

IDPA Headquarters.

10.3.10 All decisions by the Appeals Team are final and may not be appealed.

10.3.11 No third-party appeals will be accepted by a shooter on behalf of someone else.

10.3.12 The AC will provide a summary of the appeal and disposition to IDPA Headquarters within 1 week of the match

completion date.

[Jeff O]

This smells terribly bad and it looks to me like you can pay a $100 and earn a DM classification in IDPA. Depending of course, on who you are.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Jeff O

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, MarilynMonbro said:

This is what supposed to happen after a Witten appeal

 

10.3.1 After receipt of the written appeal, the MD will deliver the document to the Area Coordinator (AC) of the region

or his delegate, who will act as Lead of the Arbitration Team.

10.3.2 The AC will select a team of 3 shooters (including himself) who are certified Safety Officers to comprise the

Appeals Team. Each member will have one vote. The Appeals Team Members should have no conflict of interest

with the outcome.

10.3.3 The Appeals Team will review the document prepared by the Shooter and will retain the appeal fee until a

decision is made.

10.3.4 The Team may request further information from the shooter, SO, CSO, MD, and witnesses, and may inspect any

stage or area related to the appeal.

10.3.5 The shooter filing the appeal should not initiate communications with any of the parties involved with the issue

or with the Appeals Team after the initial submission of the appeal.

10.3.6 The team will deliberate and render a decision within 1 hour after receipt of the appeal. This will be presented

to the MD and the shooter who filed the appeal.

10.3.7 It is the responsibility of the MD to implement the Appeals Team’s decision.

10.3.8 If the team supports the appeal, this may involve reinstating the shooter, providing the shooter with a reshoot,

eliminating a penalty or withdrawing the stage from the match. In this case, the appeal fee will be returned to

the shooter.

10.3.9 If the team does not support the appeal, the decision of the MD stands and the AC will forward the appeal fee to

IDPA Headquarters.

10.3.10 All decisions by the Appeals Team are final and may not be appealed.

10.3.11 No third-party appeals will be accepted by a shooter on behalf of someone else.

10.3.12 The AC will provide a summary of the appeal and disposition to IDPA Headquarters within 1 week of the match

completion date.

 

The question is not who overruled who. 

 

The question is what evidence was used to change the disqualification.

 

More to the point, who is in a better position to see whether or not the legs were swept on the draw: the SO starting the shooter or anyone else?

[Jeff O]

21 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

The question is not who overruled who. 

 

The question is what evidence was used to change the disqualification.

 

More to the point, who is in a better position to see whether or not the legs were swept on the draw: the SO starting the shooter or anyone else?

EXACTLY!! Qualified CSO, not his first Nationals, worked the World's too.

[GmanCdp]

Looks like complacency is what got the call reversed.

 

[Steppenwolf]

2 hours ago, ddc said:

 

Wow, that looks even worse than I initially thought.

So two SO's, the MD and the AMD all agreed on the DQ and but the AC over ruled everybody?

Who's the AC for that area?

Check this link for list. JJ lives in Nevada I believe, but see below.

Coordinator Chart - International Defensive Pistol Association (idpa.com)

From the steps for appeal above it notes "10.3.1 After receipt of the written appeal, the MD will deliver the document to the Area Coordinator (AC) of the region "

If "the region" is the location of the match then the CO area AC handled situation.

[MarilynMonbro]

5 hours ago, Jeff O said:

EXACTLY!! Qualified CSO, not his first Nationals, worked the World's too.

It does not matter. That is the appeal process 

[AzShooter]

If the call cannot be made with the evidence presented, then the result goes to the shooter.  It's a hard thing to be on a deliberating committee, in the end no one is happy but it's more important to keep the shooters happy so that we build matches instead of tearing them apart.  The committee shouldn't be told who the person being reviewed is and should make up their decision from the evidence presented.  You cannot go back to another competitor's  video.  

[Jeff O]

6 hours ago, MarilynMonbro said:

It does not matter. That is the appeal process 

I understand the appeal process but they used the the testimony of shooters behind the stage line rather than the testimony of the SO standing right over the shooter. It's plain favoritism.  Ask the other shooters disqualified on this same stage.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Jeff O

[SGT_Schultz]

6 hours ago, MarilynMonbro said:

It does not matter. That is the appeal process 

 

 

If you don't get why the way the decision was made is a problem now, you never will.

 

[MarilynMonbro]

8 minutes ago, Jeff O said:

I understand the appeal process but they used the the testimony of shooters behind the stage line rather than the testimony of the SO standing right over the shooter. It's plain favoritism.  Ask the other shooters disqualified on this same stage.

Did the other shooters who DQd file a written appeal? I haven't heard if that happened 

[MarilynMonbro]

2 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

 

If you don't get why the way the decision was made is a problem now, you never will.

 

The only way to fix what people don't like about this decision is to remove the appeal process. Maybe that will happen... probably not 

[MarilynMonbro]

Just now, MarilynMonbro said:

The only way to fix what people don't like about this decision is to remove the appeal process. Maybe that will happen... probably not 

 

Remove the appeal process or re-write it 

[RePete]

It's this sort of crap that turns people away.