550B Powder Measure - Am I Expecting Too Much?

[heliav8tor]

I've loaded 10's of thousands of rounds on this press consisting of pistol calibers and .223. All have been with spherical powders. I've been the route of polishing everything the powder touches on a few of my measures and found very little payback from the process.

 

Now I'm starting to load 30-06 for the Garand using an extruded powder (Accurate 4064) and questioning the lack of consistency I'm seeing. 

The chart shows the weight of 10 drops. The target weight was 46.80 gns.

 

Is this likely as good as it gets?

Is there enough variance to really matter?

Am I really overthinking this?

Am I wasting my time trying  to improve on these results?

 

I know much has been written on this. I've spent hours reading the stuff and am as confused as when I started.

 

Thanks for beating this horse again

[ChuckS]

Take a few of the heavy, mid and light rounds and go shoot them. If you don't see a difference in group size and POI, go worry about something else.  

[N7VY]

It also depends on what your trying to do. Use the 550 for plinking ammo. If you want benchrest quality you have to measure each load of powder. 

[Stuey]

The 550 was not designed for loading extruded powder.  I use my RCBS Chargemaster for that.  

[Youngeyes]

I've loaded for the Garand on a 550. Your numbers show a  grain difference between min and max. . More than good enough when shooting the Garand. Each "stick" of powder can be pretty heavy. With some bridging issues you'll never hit the throw any better than you have. Shoot em up.

[heliav8tor]

Thanks to all of you who replied.

 

I had a chance to shoot my reloads Thursday. (SMK 168 BTHP, A4064 46.8gn)

They grouped much better than the Greek CMP ammo I'd been shooting. And likely within my ability to hold a consistent sight picture.

The couple fliers I had were on shots that I knew I'd blown.

 

Attached screenshot from my SOLO etarget. The grid squares are 1 moa. The green + is mean poi. Shot for group only, with same zero as used for the Greek ammo. Now I just need to practice... and as @ChuckS said "go worry about something else"

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by heliav8tor

[dogdoc1]

I would not worry about that variation. Remember your scale is only accurate to +- .1 grain so some of that could be from measurement as well

[RudyVey]

I don't think it is that bad, your 10-drop average is right on. Powder shape/particle size can have quite an influence.

I load 357 mag with Nobel Vectan BA 9 1/2, and I shoot for a 5.2 grain load. I always weigh a few drops while loading, and get values between 5.18 to 5.22 - so extremely consistent. This powder is very tiny beads. I always make sure I have the shell plate full with cases when I take one out for weighing.

[AHI]

4064 is one of those powders that doesn't meter well. But it takes one full gran to make a difference in a 3006 case.

4895 meters better if you have accercy issues with the 4064.

[heliav8tor]

My scale is accurate to +/- 0.01 gn. That's why I listed results to 2 decimal places. I got tired of the drifting pos scale I started loading with and replaced it. This scale is repeatable and checks favorably against my check weights.

 

I ran 3 more 10 drop tests after the one I posted. All were somewhat better than the first.

 

The target I posted was shot prone with a sling at 200 yds. I'll do further testing from a bench using a front rest and rear bag.

[Plinker45ACP]

You might consider finding an old 450 Powder Measure and polish it up per mentions in various posts.

I found way back when I could manually cycle using IMR 4895 holding pretty consistent powder charges IIRC about plus of minus 0.3gr with an improvised powder baffle made from a coke can.

[HesedTech]

On 9/8/2021 at 11:42 AM, heliav8tor said:

I've spent hours reading the stuff and am as confused as when I started.

No reason to be confused.

 

I too have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds of ammo and this is what I know.

 

If I want accuracy, as in sub MOA, everything counts. 
 

This means using some form of trickle powder measure and not a drop like the Dillon.  I personally use a Charge Master. 
Bullet OAL, brass consistency, neck size, bullet weight and type and more will drop your SDs and increase the accuracy.

 

The truth is there is no way a Dillon powder drop on a progressive press can provide the consistency needed. While some powders drop better than others a trickler style of powder measure is the only way to get what you seek. 
 

Yes it’s slow and often tedious, especially when one is used to progressive processes. 

 

 

[HesedTech]

4 hours ago, Plinker45ACP said:

plus of minus 0.3gr

This is okay for plinking around 100 yards and USPSA (all though my Dillon does drop at an accuracy level of .1 with the powder I use for 9mm) but is no where near accurate enough for precision rifle shooting. 

[38super]

Varget has a similar prob, give the down stroke an extra nudge.  helps empty the powder slide and break up any bridging.

[Farmer]

H414 or WW760 works great through a drop and generally gives very good accuracy. 

[Sigarmsp226]

6 hours ago, HesedTech said:

No reason to be confused.

 

I too have loaded 10s of thousands of rounds of ammo and this is what I know.

 

If I want accuracy, as in sub MOA, everything counts. 
 

This means using some form of trickle powder measure and not a drop like the Dillon.  I personally use a Charge Master. 
Bullet OAL, brass consistency, neck size, bullet weight and type and more will drop your SDs and increase the accuracy.

 

The truth is there is no way a Dillon powder drop on a progressive press can provide the consistency needed. While some powders drop better than others a trickler style of powder measure is the only way to get what you seek. 
 

Yes it’s slow and often tedious, especially when one is used to progressive processes. 

 

 

All GREAT points and spot on…Well summarized Hesed…..

[AHI]

research conversion kit to install a RCBS or Hornady powder measure.  with extruded powders they can be more constant.

otherwise look at other powder alternatives .  now with all that said. US Palma team loads their ammo on a 650. David Tubbs

loads on a modified 550.  Accept the variation it has less effect than you may thick. If loading real long range weigh each charge.

You already stated that your reloads are more accurate than the mill surplus ammo you have been shooting. It may. Just maybe 

time to . Just shoot and not worry about a minor variation .

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, AHI said:

now with all that said. US Palma team loads their ammo on a 650. David Tubbs

loads on a modified 550. 

You have to be clear, they use a 650 and 550 with the head secured, floating dies and drop the powder with a fancy trickler.

 

They do not do the typical progressive one pass method. The brass is meticulously prepared, its volume measured, the neck sized, bullets seated to ogive not OAL and more.

 

Some of the guys, especially F Class shooters, can hit sub MOA (okay under 2” group) at 1000 yards.

 

The point is the OP is trying to get consistent powder drops from a system which on its best day, with the right powders is adequate for general shooting.

 

If anyone wants to see how a precision rifle shooter loads on a 550, 650, or 750 check out F Class John. 
https://youtube.com/c/FClassJohn

 

[AHI]

3 hours ago, AHI said:

research conversion kit to install a RCBS or Hornady powder measure.  with extruded powders they can be more constant.

otherwise look at other powder alternatives .

Hesedtech  you skipped the first 3 sentences.

[HesedTech]

43 minutes ago, AHI said:

Hesedtech  you skipped the first 3 sentences.

Nope didn't miss it, just commenting on how the precision rifle people load with a Dillon progressive press. 

As far as the RCBS or Hornady measure goes (also the Lee auto pro drum isn't too bad), while a bit more precise than the Dillon they still don't compare to a Chargemaster or similar where powder consistency is required.

Edited September 21, 2021 by HesedTech

[KLWorkman]

Isn't there an aftermarket powder baffle for the Dillon PM? But to get less than 1/2 grain with stick powders you will need to go a different route with a powder trickler either manual or electric.

[K-Tex]

Never hurry and make even pulls.....pause, then push.   Maybe keep more than half full has helped me.

[heliav8tor]

That describes my procedure.

 

Here's what I've gotten from this topic relative to the Dillon Measure:

• Polishing and detailing makes a slight improvement (I've done this).
• Some have found grounding and other methods to eliminate static charge may help. (Tried this too)
• Stick powders will never equal ball powders for accuracy with this design.
• Other designs may give better accuracy, but
• Trickle techniques are required to get the accuracy I had hoped for.
• That level of accuracy is not required for the type of shooting I do.
• The small variances I'm getting won't make any real world difference.
• Let this go and find something else to stress over. (LOL)
• Shoot and have fun!

Thanks to all who offered help.

Tom

[Youngeyes]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:14 AM, heliav8tor said:

Shoot and have fun!

Post that over your press. Enjoy.