Kidd Chassis

[zzt]

15 hours ago, cbrussell said:

zzt, right you are. I should have been more specific. My plan is to KIDD build me a super grade on their chassis with their ultra-light barrel. Therefore I would need to add a rear,and front sight.

 

Kidd's ultra-light barrels are .870 OD.  The Wiland front sight has a .750" OD to match the shroud on their barrel.  You might consider using the Wiland USA LLW barrel instead.  It is a 5.5" rifled barrel with a shroud attached to bring the total length to 16.1"  It transitions like lightning.  They make FO front sights and an adjustable rear sight.  You would have to use their Standard receiver..  If accuracy is your concern, the Wiland is way more accurate than needed for SCSA.  Our rimfire range has silhouette targets are 50 yards.  I can knock the chickens down with no problem.  The chickens are about the size of a Nickel.

[mchapman]

26 minutes ago, zzt said:

targets are 50 yards.  I can knock the chickens down with no problem.  The chickens are about the size of a Nickel.

Hell, I can't see a nickel at 50 yds let alone try and shoot and hit one.

[jrdoran]

2 hours ago, mchapman said:

Hell, I can't see a nickel at 50 yds let alone try and shoot and hit one.

I was thinking the exact same thing especially with a 12moa dot!   

[Gregg K]

1 hour ago, jrdoran said:

I was thinking the exact same thing especially with a 12moa dot!   

Hmmm, a 12 MOA dot is going to cover a little over 7 nickels wide at 50 yards, I think that chicken is pretty safe.

[mchapman]

33 minutes ago, Gregg K said:

Hmmm, a 12 MOA dot is going to cover a little over 7 nickels wide at 50 yards, I think that chicken is pretty safe.

[zzt]

2 hours ago, jrdoran said:

I was thinking the exact same thing especially with a 12moa dot!   

 

Jim, the 12 MOA dot is on the PCC.  I changed it out for a 5 MOA SRO.  However, the SRO on my Open gun died so the 12 is back on.

 

There has always been a 2 MOA dot on the RFRO.  I turn the intensity down.  With the rifle on a rest I cover the chicken with the dot.  It more than covers the body, but you can see a bit of the head sticking out at 10 o'clock and a bit of the tail at 3 o'clock.  I score five hits out of five shots with Fiocchi standard velocity and Eley Target.  Slightly different zero's for each.  CCI standard is not as accurate.  Only one hit in five tries.  The gun absolutely does not like Norma Tac-22.  Surprisingly, the Eley Action Plus is about as accurate as the CCI.

[jrdoran]

Steve, to be honest, I wasn't sure which dot you had on it.  I was referring to my own inability to see it with 12 MOA on all my guns that I could never hit the chicken.    Even so, your RFRO  a 2 MOA that is damn good.      At that distance and accuacy, yes ammo selection becomes a bigger factor for sure.   I'm very happy with my wiland barrel.   If we were discussing accuracy or hunting, I have found the KIDD barrels to be top notch, even their lightweights.

 

Now if you tell me your hitting that chicken with your RFPO freehand......   

[zzt]

1 hour ago, jrdoran said:

Now if you tell me your hitting that chicken with your RFPO freehand......

 

Not a snowball's chance in hell.  I can't keep my shots inside the 10 ring of a 50 yard bullseye target freehand, and that's 3.36" across.  So a chicken is out of the question.

[Hoops]

I went to the range yesterday to shoot the updated Wiland and Kidd chassis configuration.  My focus type of chassis build is Steel Challenge, which may or may not be applicable to some of the other shooting types noted in this topic.  

 

Wiland chassis build:

- Installed the new Magnum Research switchbolt receiver that finally arrived.  All 4 of my steel challenge builds have the same receiver.

- Standard recoil spring that came with receiver with super slick Kidd guiderod.

- Installed a Briley 10.5 oz full 16" aluminum barrel I already had.

- Kidd single stage trigger set at 1 - 3/4 lb.

- C-more slideride 8 MOA

- 3 D printed grip that comes with chassis

- Crazy Ivan "chubby" foam tube on the butt stock.  

- Gun wt:  4 lb. 1.5 oz overall

 

Kidd chassis build:

- Magnum Research switchbolt receiver.

- 10% Kidd reduction recoil with super slick Kidd guiderod.

- Wiland UL 5" barrel sleeved to 16.5 ".  Black version.

- Kidd single stage trigger set at 1 - 3/4 lb.

- C-more slideride 8 MOA

- Magpul MOE K2+ grip

- Homemade CF tube buttstock (Smoke Composite shipped and on it's way)

- Crazy Ivan "chubby" foam tube on the butt stock.  

- Gun wt:  4 lb. 2.5 oz overall

 

I ran steel plate drills shooting 275 rounds thru each gun.  CCI Mini Mag 40 gr CPRN / HV

 

- Both guns ran flawlessly.  

- After warming up, times per run for each gun were essentially in the same range.  Very close to each other.

- Both guns indexed and transitioned very well.

 

Initial conclusion is that I liked both.  If I had only one......either one......that would work just fine with me.  The Kidd with the CF butt tube stock change is much, much better for SCSA than the heavier standard buffer tube and adjustable stock.  I do wish the Wiland had a different grip.  The one that came with the chassis is okay, but the Magpul K2+ grip is much better.  I am working on a way to put a K2+ on it

 

For SCSA, I find Wiland, Kidd or ModShot chassis' all to be good.  Any one of them lightweight builds.  I would give a slight nod to the Wiland sleeved barrel over the Briley barrel but not by much.  Both barrels performed well.  The Briley full 16" seems to like standard velocity ammo better than the Wiland.....probably a pressure thing.   One note when comparing cost:  Kidd ships only the bare chassis.  No buttstock or grip.  Wiland and ModShot ship with CF tube buttstock's,  handguard and/or palm grip.  

 

That's if for me on this topic.  Good luck on your choice, happy shooting and stay SAFE during these trying COVID days.  Thanks for your input..........I got several good ideas....especially on the homemade CF buttstock.

 

Merry Christmas.

[Hoops]

Smoke Composite butt stock arrived.  Very light.  Adjustable cheek riser is adder.

 

[Eaglehunter]

Looks really nice @Hoops

 

How does it compare to the homemade version?  I actually have the “no-snag” version in the cart ready to check out but have been mulling over which one to get. Now that you have the adjustable cheek riser, would you buy it again over the chubby?

 

You mentioned that you decided to install the 10% reduction guiderod spring. Any specific reason for this and what is your experience with it?  I have been thinking about trying it out but every once in a while the regular strength version feels like it is hanging up a bit when I manually charge it on a fresh magazine,  so I am reluctant to switch to a reduced power and was wondering whether I should try the heavier one instead..

[Hoops]

2 minutes ago, Eaglehunter said:

Looks really nice @Hoops

 

How does it compare to the homemade version?  I actually have the “no-snag” version in the cart ready to check out but have been mulling over which one to get. Now that you have the adjustable cheek riser, would you buy it again over the chubby?

 

You mentioned that you decided to install the 10% reduction guiderod spring. Any specific reason for this and what is your experience with it?  I have been thinking about trying it out but every once in a while the regular strength version feels like it is hanging up a bit when I manually charge it on a fresh magazine,  so I am reluctant to switch to a reduced power and was wondering whether I should try the heavier one instead..

Eaglehunter, thanks for your comments.

 

When we (fellow shooters) switched to 10/22's and some using the Wiland sleeved barrel (5" actuall barrel and question of pressures), one of our group had some issues with standard velocity ammo feeds and when he switched to 10% Kidd reduction recoil spring, it resolved the issue.  So like a lot of us, we jumped on the reduced spring.  Truth is, I shoot HV most of the time and don't have an issue with the 10% reduction with it.  The new Magnum Research receiver I received last week has the standard recoil spring in it.  I did not change it.  When I shot it with the light weight 16" Briley barrel, it ran perfectly.  I have friends who did not change to the reduced recoil springs and thiers run perfectly but they use HV ammo.  I suppose if you shoot standard velocity and it acts up, maybe try reduced.  One thing my group does do is change extractor to Volquartsen.

 

Truthfully, I think the homemade buffer tube with the chubby worked just fine on my Kidd chassis.   I put a chubby on my two ModShot's also.   Comfortable to me and works with my red dot elevation.  The only thing I had to do was take a 5" shoulder end piece off my ModShot and put it on the homemade version.  The screw from the ModShot worked perfectly.   The homemade CF is just slightly under 1" in diameter and the chubby can be slipped on before the 5" end plate is screwed on. 

 

I have not yet shot the Smoke Composite shock with or without the cheek riser.  I believe I will like stock and cheek riser but how much better than the homemade version with the chubby is not known yet.   One thing to note about the Smoke Composite.  The tube is a hard 1 1/8" diameter..... perhaps 1 3/32".  The end should plate is permanently attached so the chubby would have to be installed from the threaded end.  The threaded adapter is 1 1/4" diameter so I am not sure I could work the chubby on it and I haven't tried since I have the cheek riser. 

 

If I had not ordered the Smoke Composite before I built the homemade versions I probably would not have purchased it.  But.......10/22 recievers are of different height.   My Magnum Research receiver,  with the chubby just happened to give me the right combination for my red dot on both Kidd and ModShot.  An actual cheek riser would give more flexibility if i had different height receiver. 

 

NOTE:  I decided to order a Taccom delrin/carbon fiber butt stock.  Website says it works well with any calibur that does not require a buffer and buffer spring.  Around $60.00.  One thought I had was that the end plate from the Taccom might work on my homemade stock that I put on my MPX.   If I like it, it is easy to cut down to my LOP.

 

Sorry for so much verbage.  

 

Good luck.

[RaylanGivens]

4 minutes ago, Hoops said:

When we (fellow shooters) switched to 10/22's and some using the Wiland sleeved barrel (5" actuall barrel and question of pressures), one of our group had some issues with standard velocity ammo feeds and when he switched to 10% Kidd reduction recoil spring, it resolved the issue.  So like a lot of us, we jumped on the reduced spring.  Truth is, I shoot HV most of the time and don't have an issue with the 10% reduction with it.  The new Magnum Research receiver I received last week has the standard recoil spring in it.  I did not change it.  When I shot it with the light weight 16" Briley barrel, it ran perfectly.  I have friends who did not change to the reduced recoil springs and thiers run perfectly but they use HV ammo.  I suppose if you shoot standard velocity and it acts up, maybe try reduced.  One thing my group does do is change extractor to Volquartsen.

 

Thanks for the details on the CCI Standard Velocity ammunition...  I have a Wiland chassis and one of his sleeved barrels on order and plan to use CCI Standard Velocity ammunition...  I've heard that some people have trouble with it in a Wiland sleeved barrel...  My plan was to go with a lower weight recoil spring if I had trouble...  Like I did with my Ruger Mk2/3 RFPO pistol...  Thanks for confirming that plan...  I'll order some of the springs while I'm waiting for the rest of my RFRO rifle parts to arrive.

[Hoops]

For anyone interested in the Crazy Ivan chubby foam tube.

 

The chubby works on my 1” ModShot and my homemade 1” CF tubes.

 

The CF handguard tube on the Wiland is 1 1/8” diameter.  I just worked a chubby on it just to see if it would fit 1-1/8”....it does.

Not sure what diameter the Taccom CF tube is but I believe it to be just under 1”.  
 

if anyone knows of a clamp on shoulder end piece that will work on 1” tube let me know.

 

 

 

 

[BentAero]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

...if anyone knows of a clamp on shoulder end piece that will work on 1” tube let me know.

 

 

You could just cut a strip of 1/16" thick plastic, making a sleeve to put over the 1" tube, then use the Wiland shoulder piece...

Edited December 29, 2020 by BentAero

[BentAero]

Re the 5" Wiland barrel; if you change the recoil spring to the lighter version for using SV ammo, what happens if you run HV ammo? Will it cause damage? Have to change the spring back to the original?

 

My long-term thinking is, I may not be able to obtain the ideal ammo, so it may need to be somewhat 'universal'...

[Eaglehunter]

Great, thank you very much for the details. Definitely not too much verbiage and very relevant!

 

Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread, but if you have access to compressed air it makes it really easy to slip those foam tubes over the handguard.

 

For the clamp on shoulder piece, you could probably use another piece of the original buffer tube that was cut for the front mount if you still have it?   Or maybe cut a shim from a piece of stainless steel sheeting. 

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, BentAero said:

Re the 5" Wiland barrel; if you change the recoil spring to the lighter version for using SV ammo, what happens if you run HV ammo? Will it cause damage? Have to change the spring back to the original?

 

My long-term thinking is, I may not be able to obtain the ideal ammo, so it may need to be somewhat 'universal'...

Several guys I shoot with run the Wiland barrels.....both the black barrel and the SS barrel.  Both standard and lighter recoil springs are being used.  I see no visible physical issues with bolt nor has anyone in my group mentioned it.  Guns are cleaned and inspected after each outing.

 

The concensus with us is that regardless of which recoil spring, we run HV ammo thru the Wiland for reliabilty in matches.   For those of us who have more than one gun set up....ModShot, Kidd or Wiland.......if we are going to shoot standard velocity we tend to use the gun(s) with the 16"/17" barrels.   For practice, we are less concerned.  

 

This subject might be good for a new Topic - "Wiland barrels - Standard or HV Ammo" or something like that to get more input from other folks.  It could be a good specific discussion regarding recoil springs and ammo.  In fact, I think I will start a new Topic tonight.

 

[Hoops]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/291148-wiland-barrel-standard-or-hv-ammo-standard-or-light-recoil-springs/?do=findComment&comment=3235485

 

New topic started.

[zzt]

13 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Thanks for the details on the CCI Standard Velocity ammunition...  I have a Wiland chassis and one of his sleeved barrels on order and plan to use CCI Standard Velocity ammunition...  I've heard that some people have trouble with it in a Wiland sleeved barrel...  My plan was to go with a lower weight recoil spring if I had trouble...  Like I did with my Ruger Mk2/3 RFPO pistol...  Thanks for confirming that plan...  I'll order some of the springs while I'm waiting for the rest of my RFRO rifle parts to arrive.

 

While you are at it order the Kidd super slick recoil spring guide rod.  It is definitely worth it, especially with the 10% reduced recoil spring with 'standard' ammo.   Even the slower ammo ejects properly.

 

10 hours ago, BentAero said:

Re the 5" Wiland barrel; if you change the recoil spring to the lighter version for using SV ammo, what happens if you run HV ammo? Will it cause damage? Have to change the spring back to the original?

 

My long-term thinking is, I may not be able to obtain the ideal ammo, so it may need to be somewhat 'universal'...

 

You run the risk of battering the bolt.  After trying several bolt buffers I ended up using the Kidd.  It is a steel rod inside a rubber sleeve.  It stays in place and does what it is supposed to.   I am currently running standard velocity ammo with a Wiland LLW barrel and have no problems.  When I was running the standard recoil spring, SV ammo did run.  So did the AR Tactical I run in RFPO.  When I tried hot ammo like Eley Force (42gr @ 1250 fps) I could feel the bolt slam into the buffer.  I have 2000 rounds of Eley Action Plus (cheaper Force) that I planned to use in my pistol.  Unfortunately, even with the stiffest recoil spring it is too hot for my 22 conversion (IMO).  So when I run out of SV  I'll use it in the 10/22 with the extra power Kidd recoil spring.

 

8 hours ago, Hoops said:

This subject might be good for a new Topic - "Wiland barrels - Standard or HV Ammo" or something like that to get more input from other folks

 

Hoops, I'm a sample of one, but here is what I found.  I run a Tactical Innovations left-charging receiver and bolt and a Wiland LLW barrel.  With a standard recoil spring everything works.  However, some supposedly SV ammo does not eject very far.  Geco SV Bolt Action is one of those.  Norma Tac 22 is another.  Both are slower than CCI SV or Eley Target or Fiocchi Performance Plus SV.  So that's why I went with the 10% reduced recoil spring.  As I mentioned above, you 'should' use the heavy recoil spring with hot ammo.

[Flageo]

What a great thread.  Hoops - thanks for all that you contributed to it.  Really great information.  I currently have two volquartsen rifles and am using the axiom stock.  Working out well - but I have my eye on an updated chassis.  This thread was just what I was looking for.  

[RaylanGivens]

On 12/23/2020 at 6:32 AM, Hoops said:

I do wish the Wiland had a different grip.  The one that came with the chassis is okay, but the Magpul K2+ grip is much better.  I am working on a way to put a K2+ on it

 

Any luck mounting a Magpul K2+ grip on your Wiland chassis?

 

I seem to remember that Todd was coming out with an adapter, but don't see one on his web site.

[Hoops]

45 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Any luck mounting a Magpul K2+ grip on your Wiland chassis?

 

I seem to remember that Todd was coming out with an adapter, but don't see one on his web site.

Go to Wiland Chassis in this forum.  Gregg K has a picture of a modified grip he installed and pictures of the standard grip that comes with the Wiland Chassis.  To my knowledge Todd has not made and adapator but since I purchased a chassis early, I have not looked at his website.

 

Hope the pictures and comments in the Wiland Chassis helps.

 

Hoops