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Bullets Out Magazine - Illegal?


Mikemiller69gs
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ORIGINAL BUG was a side match, 5 shots, no draw, no reload.

Now it is a main match Division.  Not that I have seen it done.

CCP seems to be doing well, though, along with IDPA/USPSA/SCSAs new best buddy, CO.

 

"Shoot What You Carry"

Have you ever seen anybody shoot AIWB concealed at an outlaw or USPSA match?

I have and he scared me.  I don't know where he thought his appendix is, but his holster was just slightly to starboard of his navel.  That meant his draw was already about 150 degrees.  Then there was the stage with the start line at 45 degrees, guaranteed sweep of the left side of the bay.  His buddy the RO did not think that was a problem, but I did and made sure to stay well off to the other side of the bay after that.  

 

Edited by Jim Watson
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51 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

ORIGINAL BUG was a side match, 5 shots, no draw, no reload.

Now it is a main match Division.  Not that I have seen it done.

CCP seems to be doing well, though, along with IDPA/USPSA/SCSAs new best buddy, CO.

 

"Shoot What You Carry"

Have you ever seen anybody shoot AIWB concealed at an outlaw or USPSA match?

I have and he scared me.  I don't know where he thought his appendix is, but his holster was just slightly to starboard of his navel.  That meant his draw was already about 150 degrees.  Then there was the stage with the start line at 45 degrees, guaranteed sweep of the left side of the bay.  His buddy the RO did not think that was a problem, but I did and made sure to stay well off to the other side of the bay after that.  

 

 

I know there is a guy who made gm in uspsa limited drawing from cover and aiwb, and I am pretty sure he was shooting 9mm out of a 34

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6 hours ago, DirkD said:

Doesn't change the fact they still have stupid rules and Safety Officers looking to screw a shooter whenever they can.

Nor does it change the fact that one does not have to participate in any sport they don't like.

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18 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You're absolutely right.  That's why, in western Ohio, USPSA is flourishing and IDPA is barely hanging on not just in numbers but in the quality of the competition.

 

Which is the same answer you got in pistol-forum from someone else to your same exact comment over there.

What's your point?  So what if I made the same statement on a different forum, or if I got an answer similar to yours?  ?  I made a simple statement, which is a dead-nut fact . . If one doesn't care for the rules of a sport, they don't have to participate.  

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2 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

What's your point?  So what if I made the same statement on a different forum, or if I got an answer similar to yours?  ?  I made a simple statement, which is a dead-nut fact . . If one doesn't care for the rules of a sport, they don't have to participate.  

 

The point is simple.  In my area at least, more and more people are choosing to not shoot IDPA.

 

IDPA has nicely inflated membership numbers because they require shooters to be members and most (not all) comply.

 

The number who choose USPSA is far greater than the organization's membership roster would have you believe.

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3 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

Nor does it change the fact that one does not have to participate in any sport they don't like.

 

This is the attitude of IDPA, and I think it's part of the reason it's been some what in decline. I live in the north east, we have vary strong IDPA up here. Probably one of the best places to live if you IDPA. I got enough points to get into there last "world championship" with out traveling more then 4 hours from my house.

 

 That said, it's less then it was when I started and USPSA matches in the same are sell out in minutes. Even club matches can have wait lists. 

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On 1/25/2021 at 8:07 AM, RJH said:

What i would like to see is people show up with their actual carry guns and shoot.  W

 

A buddy of mine took his carry 365 with a dot to the local IDPA match as CO using ammo loaded to feel like his carry ammo. Still managed HOA.

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I am not trying to argue the merits of IDPA vs. USPSA.  USPSA is the more popular shooting sport.

 

USPSA and IDPA rules for competition and equipment are different.  One should be able to shoot either or both disciplines if they desire.

 

All I have said from the beginning (and also said in another shooting forum) is this: 

If you don't like the rules, participation is not mandatory.  I'm not speaking on behalf of IDPA when I say that.  It's just a fact.  

 

I find it odd that this appears to be such a hot button when pistol competition is discussed.  Don't like IDPA?  Don't shoot it!

 

It's counter-productive to constantly berate a shooting discipline, even if one does not agree with the subject shooting discipline's rules.  Why berate shooting?  What does it accomplish?  Calling a sport "dumb" or "stupid" because you don't like the rules will do absolutely nothing to change it.  

 

If, by your definition, the sport is dying, the rules are stupid, and competition is not "up to the level" you seek or desire, why not just move on and let those who DO enjoy the sport enjoy it without being told how "stupid" their sport is?  What does that accomplish except build a wall between groups of shooters who enjoy different disciplines?

 

I can think of two or three other shooting sports that I have tried in years past that I did not enjoy.  So guess what?  I don't participate in those sports.  I don't hang out on gun forums talking about how dumb their rules are, or how boring I find the sport, or how far beneath my expectations the level of competition is, or how goofy their equipment rules might appear.  I just don't participate.  And I wish them success.  After all, they are shooters.

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What if you like IDPA, or it's potential, but wish some rules were different? That's why I'm a vocal hater of the sport, because they are too stupid at HQ to fix it and make something that's actually good.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

ORIGINAL BUG was a side match, 5 shots, no draw, no reload.

Now it is a main match Division.  Not that I have seen it done.

CCP seems to be doing well, though, along with IDPA/USPSA/SCSAs new best buddy, CO.

 

"Shoot What You Carry"

Have you ever seen anybody shoot AIWB concealed at an outlaw or USPSA match?

I have and he scared me.  I don't know where he thought his appendix is, but his holster was just slightly to starboard of his navel.  That meant his draw was already about 150 degrees.  Then there was the stage with the start line at 45 degrees, guaranteed sweep of the left side of the bay.  His buddy the RO did not think that was a problem, but I did and made sure to stay well off to the other side of the bay after that.  

 

 

9 hours ago, RJH said:

 

I know there is a guy who made gm in uspsa limited drawing from cover and aiwb, and I am pretty sure he was shooting 9mm out of a 34

 

 

Gabe White is who I think you are referring to RJH....

 

http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/

 

 

And this guy:

 

https://www.instagram.com/lespepperoni/?hl=en

 

But I'm not here to debate the rules, or the bullets out magazine, I just asked my question, because I had never participated in a BUG match, or shot the division (I was SSP). I guess my point is that one bad experience with someone doesn't mean it's a bad idea, because there are plenty of people who do it, and do it capably. Which is the rule, and which is the exception? I honestly have no idea. As long as it's safe, I've got no issue with it.  Jim, in the situation you describe, I'd likely have felt the same way as you.

 

 

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14 hours ago, 45 Raven said:

 

If you don't like the rules, participation is not mandatory.  I'm not speaking on behalf of IDPA when I say that.  It's just a fact.  

 

 

I think most of us like the concept of idpa, we just have been let down by the execution of it. I started in IDPA, but getting hosed again and again eventually pushed me away. I still shoot it, but I don't let myself take it seriously because,.... well you just can't.

 

You don't speak for IDPA, but I've heard this line from many a IDPA shooter. I think HQ probably holds the same attitude and they can run their company how ever they want to. But I think with a different attitude IDPA could be so much better and reach so many more people. 

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I think one thing that hurts IDPA recruitment is that if somebody gets tired of renting a lane or dinging cans at the gravel pit and says "I wanna shoot comps.",  hears Eye Dee Pee Ay and looks around on the gun boards, he is going to come up with page after page of internet experts telling him how lame it is and how he ought to do Something Else.

 

So if you don't like IDPA, you don't have to shoot it, but I wish you would refrain from telling me what I am doing wrong to stay with it.   

Edited by Jim Watson
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4 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

So if you don't like IDPA, you don't have to shoot it, but I wish you would refrain from telling me what I am doing wrong to stay with it.   

 

I didn't see anyone telling you not to shoot it. 

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No but I have read and heard many times all that was "wrong" with IDPA.

I have stuck with it so the critics are just an annoyance to me, but as I said, I think they have discouraged new prospects. 

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6 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

I think one thing that hurts IDPA recruitment is that if somebody gets tired of renting a lane or dinging cans at the gravel pit and says "I wanna shoot comps.",  hears Eye Dee Pee Ay and looks around on the gun boards, he is going to come up with page after page of internet experts telling him how lame it is and how he ought to do Something Else.

 

So if you don't like IDPA, you don't have to shoot it, but I wish you would refrain from telling me what I am doing wrong to stay with it.   

 

So the institutional problems of poorly defined rules, poor officiating, and refusal to consider that they might be wrong (AIWB) are not IDPA's to fix, but ours to stay silent about?

 

LOL, I don't think so.

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On 1/24/2021 at 8:24 PM, RJH said:

Wouldn't it be awesome if there was a sport where people used there ACTUAL carry gear.  I have done it a time or two in USPSA and wish there was a place to do it against other people using their actual carry gear.  Maybe not even a whole sport, maybe just a match or 2 that was  carry gear oriented

When there is a 5th Saturday in a month we do a carry gun steel challenge match. There is one this Saturday if it doesn't rain.

 

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16 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

So the institutional problems of poorly defined rules, poor officiating, and refusal to consider that they might be wrong (AIWB) are not IDPA's to fix, but ours to stay silent about?

 

LOL, I don't think so.

 

Don't get on MY case about what you see wrong with IDPA, I am not a manager there and all you are doing is annoying me.  

 

The sum total of all the internet improvements in IDPA would be a merger with USPSA.

 

I have been around a long time.  I recall the competition between the Gamesmen and the Martial Artists back when it was still IPSC.  The Gamesmen gained control and have kept it, as shown by the occasional plaintive post about shooting one's carry gun.  Which I have done and seen done, but not much.

 

My only experience of  AIWB is the time when stage layout led a practitioner to point his gun at me and the RO not think it a problem.  No, thanks.

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On 1/26/2021 at 1:55 PM, 45 Raven said:

Nor does it change the fact that one does not have to participate in any sport they don't like.

so you think it is a good idea for Safety Officers to screw over people every chance they get?

 

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5 hours ago, DirkD said:

so you think it is a good idea for Safety Officers to screw over people every chance they get?

 

?????????  Sorry, but I can't find anywhere in this thread where I even inferred that.

 

 

 

 

Edited by 45 Raven
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On 1/26/2021 at 6:34 PM, 45 Raven said:

I am not trying to argue the merits of IDPA vs. USPSA.  USPSA is the more popular shooting sport.

 

USPSA and IDPA rules for competition and equipment are different.  One should be able to shoot either or both disciplines if they desire.

 

All I have said from the beginning (and also said in another shooting forum) is this: 

If you don't like the rules, participation is not mandatory.  I'm not speaking on behalf of IDPA when I say that.  It's just a fact.  

 

I find it odd that this appears to be such a hot button when pistol competition is discussed.  Don't like IDPA?  Don't shoot it!

 

It's counter-productive to constantly berate a shooting discipline, even if one does not agree with the subject shooting discipline's rules.  Why berate shooting?  What does it accomplish?  Calling a sport "dumb" or "stupid" because you don't like the rules will do absolutely nothing to change it.  

 

If, by your definition, the sport is dying, the rules are stupid, and competition is not "up to the level" you seek or desire, why not just move on and let those who DO enjoy the sport enjoy it without being told how "stupid" their sport is?  What does that accomplish except build a wall between groups of shooters who enjoy different disciplines?

 

I can think of two or three other shooting sports that I have tried in years past that I did not enjoy.  So guess what?  I don't participate in those sports.  I don't hang out on gun forums talking about how dumb their rules are, or how boring I find the sport, or how far beneath my expectations the level of competition is, or how goofy their equipment rules might appear.  I just don't participate.  And I wish them success.  After all, they are shooters.

the problem with IDPA is some SO's and MD's look for a way to screw over people, they have some stupid rules that don't make any sense, but so does USPSA.

Problem with a lot of IPDA people is, if you bring up something you disagree with you are a hater and you don't have to shoot it.

Is that how IDPA HQ feels?

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On 1/28/2021 at 9:09 AM, Jim Watson said:

 

My only experience of  AIWB is the time when stage layout led a practitioner to point his gun at me and the RO not think it a problem.  No, thanks.

sounds like you guys were standing in the wrong place, so blame the shooter?

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