Bravo_Victor Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 So todays match. Same issue first 2 stages. I decided to play around and put the original non aftec extractor in the gun. It worked for the first like 10 rounds and after that didnt even wanna extract spend cases at all. Put the aftec in minus the front spring and it ran fine for the next 2 stages. Idk if that was the trick or what but im gonna fire some more this week to see how it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, Bravo_Victor said: So todays match. Same issue first 2 stages. I decided to play around and put the original non aftec extractor in the gun. It worked for the first like 10 rounds and after that didnt even wanna extract spend cases at all. Put the aftec in minus the front spring and it ran fine for the next 2 stages. Idk if that was the trick or what but im gonna fire some more this week to see how it runs. That always seems to happen...will run absolutely fine in practice, then hiccup in a match. Let me ask a question in a different vein. Have you changed your grip (hand pressure) lately? Are you having issues with your elbows? In practice, we tend to shoot slower, more precise, with less stress. In matches, at speed, minor things can make a major difference. Wondering if it may be a grip issue. Friend got a new gun (not a competition shooter, just a casual shooter), was getting failure to feed, fail to eject), pretty consistently. Handed me the gun, same ammo, ran through 3 full mags, no issues...he was having 1-2 per mag. Turns out, it was his grip...not gripping hard enough, limp wristing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Hello: Another thing I thought of is if the grip screws are tight? Is the grip cracked? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 One more thing is the comp hitting the slide at the front of the slide or is there signs of the bullet hitting the comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Aircooled6racer said: One more thing is the comp hitting the slide at the front of the slide or is there signs of the bullet hitting the comp? Grip screws are tight and the grip doesnt appear cracked that i can see. I’ll take it apart and check inside. There are no strike marks on the comp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said: That always seems to happen...will run absolutely fine in practice, then hiccup in a match. Let me ask a question in a different vein. Have you changed your grip (hand pressure) lately? Are you having issues with your elbows? In practice, we tend to shoot slower, more precise, with less stress. In matches, at speed, minor things can make a major difference. Wondering if it may be a grip issue. Friend got a new gun (not a competition shooter, just a casual shooter), was getting failure to feed, fail to eject), pretty consistently. Handed me the gun, same ammo, ran through 3 full mags, no issues...he was having 1-2 per mag. Turns out, it was his grip...not gripping hard enough, limp wristing it. Thats a thought, i havnt changed my grip that im aware of in the past year but when i hit the range i will see if i can recreate the malfunction with a perfect grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_B Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Check the sides of the barrel hood and make sure it is not binding on the slide. I have seen this cause the same malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbdyspl Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 14 hours ago, Bravo_Victor said: So todays match. Same issue first 2 stages. I decided to play around and put the original non aftec extractor in the gun. It worked for the first like 10 rounds and after that didnt even wanna extract spend cases at all. Put the aftec in minus the front spring and it ran fine for the next 2 stages. Idk if that was the trick or what but im gonna fire some more this week to see how it runs. So it sounds like you might have found the culprit. You may want to adjust the tension in the original extractor as well it doesn’t sound like it has enough tension if it won’t extract a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 51 minutes ago, nbdyspl said: So it sounds like you might have found the culprit. You may want to adjust the tension in the original extractor as well it doesn’t sound like it has enough tension if it won’t extract a case. Yeah im gonna play around with the original to keep as a backup to the aftec. Prob throw some more rounds through the aftec with 1 spring to see if that was the culprit. 2 stages it ran fine so i dont wanna judge it by that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpYoursPal Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I seem to be having this exact same issue. I'm going to try some of the fixes in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 300 rounds down the pipe today no issues. Extraction was a little weird so i switched the one aftec spring from back to front and it was better. Lets hope this isnt a fluke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Ok so i got my brand new gun in. Same builder same gun just black. Right from the rip, same exact malfunction with the same 170mm mag. Ran fine with the 140’s. Got all new grams springs and followers, same issue so it wasnt that. Doing some measurements, the 170 from front to back is .348 in the back and .355 in the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hello: Check to see if the 170mm magazine is hitting the disconnector rail on the slide. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: Check to see if the 170mm magazine is hitting the disconnector rail on the slide. Thanks, Eric It doesnt appear to be. Heres a pic. But on the contrary some interesting marks on the disco rail that werent there before: Also i was able to replicate the issue by hand cycling a full mag. Heres what it looks like: The 2 dents appear to be from slamming mags in but the uneven corner gouges gotta be from cycling and the mag hitting or no? Edited October 13, 2020 by Bravo_Victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hello: It also looks like the ejector is slightly rubbing on the slide from the wear marks on it? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: It also looks like the ejector is slightly rubbing on the slide from the wear marks on it? Thanks, Eric and radius of back side of one of your mags hit near disco channel during insertion. Edited October 13, 2020 by yigal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hello: You can check the rubbing of the magazine and ejector by using a sharpie to coat the area. Cycle the slide to see if and where there maybe some rubbing. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Bravo_Victor said: It doesnt appear to be. Heres a pic. But on the contrary some interesting marks on the disco rail that werent there before: Also i was able to replicate the issue by hand cycling a full mag. Heres what it looks like: The 2 dents appear to be from slamming mags in but the uneven corner gouges gotta be from cycling and the mag hitting or no? what mags are you running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I am yet to use an AFTEC that didn't require fitting of the hook depth to ensure proper function. A tell tail sign that an AFTEC hook depth isn't right is when people take one spring out and it starts working. That works for a while then they will eventually break an ear off of the spring capture cup. the AFTEC was designed to always use both springs and yes it also requires proper fitting of the extractor hook to ensure reliable brass rim engagement. The back end of the AFTEC where it engages the firing pin stop needs to be fitted properly to allow in/out movement but no clocking movement. I have seen a bunch of incorrectly fit firing pin stops on AFTEC's were the FPS has been rounded too much and the AFTEC can clock within the tunnel. All of this to say that and AFTEC is NOT a drop in part that will magically work without fitting it properly. They also don't last forever so maybe your was fitted properly to start off with but has simply worn out. If you can't figure this stuff out yourself then take it to a competent gunsmith to do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 For what its worth, I used to use AFTEC's in all of my guns then switched to the EGW HD extractors. To me, the EGW HD Extractors are easier to fit and they retain their tension much longer than a standard extractor. Just remember that if you are currently using an AFTEC, the Firing Pin Stop shouldn't be reused with a Standard or EGW HD extractor because its been rounded on the edges. When using a standard or EGW HD extractor you need a tight no movement fit between the FPS and Extractor in order to keep it from moving around. A Standard or EGW HD extractor will also require the hook depth, angle and pinch tension to be setup correctly. So there is no "Easy Button" on setting up an extractor properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said: For what its worth, I used to use AFTEC's in all of my guns then switched to the EGW HD extractors. To me, the EGW HD Extractors are easier to fit and they retain their tension much longer than a standard extractor. Just remember that if you are currently using an AFTEC, the Firing Pin Stop shouldn't be reused with a Standard or EGW HD extractor because its been rounded on the edges. When using a standard or EGW HD extractor you need a tight no movement fit between the FPS and Extractor in order to keep it from moving around. A Standard or EGW HD extractor will also require the hook depth, angle and pinch tension to be setup correctly. So there is no "Easy Button" on setting up an extractor properly. Check the most recent update. The brand new gun is having the same issues as the original gun. Same mag and everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Furrly said: what mags are you running MBX with grams guts. Did the same thing with MBX guts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 If you have two completely different guns exhibiting the exact same issue then its likely an ammo issue. Check out the below thread I started that describes how to assess the proper OAL of your ammo based on how it impacts the barrel feed ramp and what to do in order to fix it. If the OAL isn't the correct length then it will cause "clunky" feeding which will take a lot of force out of the forward movement of the slide to feed the round and push the rim up under the extractor. This is especially important with an Open gun using a super light recoil spring like you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said: If you have two completely different guns exhibiting the exact same issue then its likely an ammo issue. Check out the below thread I started that describes how to assess the proper OAL of your ammo based on how it impacts the barrel feed ramp and what to do in order to fix it. If the OAL isn't the correct length then it will cause "clunky" feeding which will take a lot of force out of the forward movement of the slide to feed the round and push the rim up under the extractor. This is especially important with an Open gun using a super light recoil spring like you are doing. Why would my old gun work perfectly fine the whole season with these loads and then all of a sudden have this issue with the same magazine and in a new gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Bravo_Victor said: Why would my old gun work perfectly fine the whole season with these loads and then all of a sudden have this issue with the same magazine and in a new gun? Why can't you figure this stuff out yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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