Aircooled6racer Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hello: Have you checked the feed lips on the magazine? I set mine to 0.357" front to back for 9mm. Also check the mag catch slot on the magazine to see if it worn. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 4 hours ago, CHA-LEE said: Why can't you figure this stuff out yourself? Would i be here asking questions on a forum if i could? Ive tried everything i could myself and from suggestions and im still having the issue. Im not an expert on 2011’s so here i an trying to learn about s#!t i never encountered. Thats what these forums are for right? Learning? But thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said: Hello: Have you checked the feed lips on the magazine? I set mine to 0.357" front to back for 9mm. Also check the mag catch slot on the magazine to see if it worn. Thanks, Eric It was .348 in the back and .355 in the front. I was always told it needed to be a little wider in the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) This is easy. Definitely too much extractor tension. Open guns running major need just the right amount - just barely allowing the slide to fully cycle with a lighter recoil spring. If the slide cycles too easily, the extractor doesn’t have enough tension for consistent extraction. Putting in a heavier recoil spring makes it easier to tune, but affects the recoil characteristics to the point where they aren’t ideal. Check out the pics of the first and second gun. That exact point in the slide travel is where the top of the neck in the brass tries to slide under the extractor. The second gun even shows the neck of the brass against the extractor - unable to slide under it from excess tension. This issue is easy for any experienced open gunsmith to fix and kudos to everyone who diagnosed it correctly. The stronger your grip, the less likely for this to happen. Shay has a very strong grip. He probably ran 50 rounds through it and didn’t have any issue - which is about the most you can expect from any builder because it is a balancing act tuned to the individual when it comes to extractor tension - especially on the more finicky CZ/Tanfoglio platform. As you can probably deduce from this also - it is possible to “fix” this by making the gun feed easier in other aspects - but that isn’t the root of the issue. Oh, and by the way - adjusting tension in an Aftec doesn’t just mean two springs or one spring or filing. Sometimes the ideal solution may lie in cutting springs. Edited October 14, 2020 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY BARONE Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Did you fit the grip and extractor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 8 hours ago, TONY BARONE said: Did you fit the grip and extractor? No Akai did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 hours ago, Whoops! said: This is easy. Definitely too much extractor tension. Open guns running major need just the right amount - just barely allowing the slide to fully cycle with a lighter recoil spring. If the slide cycles too easily, the extractor doesn’t have enough tension for consistent extraction. Putting in a heavier recoil spring makes it easier to tune, but affects the recoil characteristics to the point where they aren’t ideal. Check out the pics of the first and second gun. That exact point in the slide travel is where the top of the neck in the brass tries to slide under the extractor. The second gun even shows the neck of the brass against the extractor - unable to slide under it from excess tension. This issue is easy for any experienced open gunsmith to fix and kudos to everyone who diagnosed it correctly. The stronger your grip, the less likely for this to happen. Shay has a very strong grip. He probably ran 50 rounds through it and didn’t have any issue - which is about the most you can expect from any builder because it is a balancing act tuned to the individual when it comes to extractor tension - especially on the more finicky CZ/Tanfoglio platform. As you can probably deduce from this also - it is possible to “fix” this by making the gun feed easier in other aspects - but that isn’t the root of the issue. Oh, and by the way - adjusting tension in an Aftec doesn’t just mean two springs or one spring or filing. Sometimes the ideal solution may lie in cutting springs. Looking at the second gun, it seems to fit over the rim just fine. All the malfunctions they have been over the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Don’t confuse the rim with the neck. Yes, it fits over the rim fine, but the neck is what pushes the extractor out. Too much extractor tension and that’s where it stops. Not sliding over the rim would indicate substantial fitment issue - which he doesn’t appear to have. If there is a fit issue - it appears minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Whoops! said: Don’t confuse the rim with the neck. Yes, it fits over the rim fine, but the neck is what pushes the extractor out. Too much extractor tension and that’s where it stops. Not sliding over the rim would indicate substantial fitment issue - which he doesn’t appear to have. If there is a fit issue - it appears minor. I understand what you are saying now. But you dont find it strange at all that this only happens with this particular 170mm magazine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 That happened with me as well with my Tanfoglio. The 170’s are more sensitive to extractor fitment than the shorter mags. In my case, It was a slight fitment issue with the extractor that led to the failures when it was only the 170 causing them. The end of my hook was just a little too close to my breechface and sitting at just slightly the wrong angle. Ran perfectly fine with shorter mags, failed with one 170 - I can only surmise because of the additional variabilities in tension as a result of having to run through a taller stack. Your mag measurements are good - I would put money on the extractor. Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Best place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, Whoops! said: That happened with me as well with my Tanfoglio. The 170’s are more sensitive to extractor fitment than the shorter mags. In my case, It was a slight fitment issue with the extractor that led to the failures when it was only the 170 causing them. The end of my hook was just a little too close to my breechface and sitting at just slightly the wrong angle. Ran perfectly fine with shorter mags, failed with one 170 - I can only surmise because of the additional variabilities in tension as a result of having to run through a taller stack. Your mag measurements are good - I would put money on the extractor. Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Best place to start. Shay is telling me its not the extractor bc it would do it with all the mags. Plus the same mag s#!t the bed on my original gun a few weeks before getting the new one and has been having issues since. Then i get the new gun and the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) If the mag is the root cause, it would be extremely unusual for the ammunition to get that far into the chamber consistently. At that point in the feed cycle, there are only two things that could even possibly be stopping it - the width of the front of the brass or the extractor. Edited October 17, 2020 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Whoops! said: If the mag is the root cause, it would be extremely unusual for the ammunition to get that far into the chamber consistently. At that point in the feed cycle, there are only two things that could even possibly be stopping it - the width of the front of the brass or the extractor. Well i guess ill find out at Nationals if my new big sticks work LOL. Atleast then i can eliminate the root of the cause. I didnt get my new gun in time of me shipping the ammo and mags to see if it works. Bad timing. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Bravo_Victor said: Well i guess ill find out at Nationals if my new big sticks work LOL. Atleast then i can eliminate the root of the cause. I didnt get my new gun in time of me shipping the ammo and mags to see if it works. Bad timing. Oh well At least you can use the short sticks if nothing else. I’m in a similar boat - just got a brand new dot and mount two days ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo_Victor Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, Whoops! said: At least you can use the short sticks if nothing else. I’m in a similar boat - just got a brand new dot and mount two days ago.... Gun ran perfectly fine today at a match with the 140’s so thats good. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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