Hammer vs Striker Fired Guns. USPSA

[B_RAD]

1 minute ago, MHicks said:

If the lighter plastic guns are better for transitions wouldn't more of the shooters who have mastered the fundamentals, grip and trigger control, gravitate back to them?

Didn’t say they were better. Just said I think they’ll make a comeback. Regain some popularity. 
 

 

[MHicks]

2 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Didn’t say they were better. Just said I think they’ll make a comeback. Regain some popularity. 
 

 

My comment was more about another post saying that the heavier gun made up for poor grip and trigger fundamentals. You could be right on your point.

[B_RAD]

5 minutes ago, MHicks said:

My comment was more about another post saying that the heavier gun made up for poor grip and trigger fundamentals. You could be right on your point.

Gotcha. 
 

I could be wrong too. I’m probably more wrong than right. 

[MikeBurgess]

Moto has it pretty well summed up, shooters should shoot what they like to shoot. 99.99 % of us are shooting for fun and most of us like playing the game with "nice" equipment too many of us believe the equipment matters way more than it does and use that false logic to justify buying the "nice" gun that we want, not that buying the nice gun is bad just the logic.

 

Yes a very light single action trigger in a heavy gun will help a bad shooter shoot somewhat less bad, it wont make them better though as the base skill deficit has not been fixed, just the gun will go off sooner during the bad trigger press, thus the gun will not have moved as much as with a crappy trigger in a light gun. 

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, B_RAD said:

 The same pull every time is easier/better than a DA/SA. How is it not. I know there’s gonna be a lot of responses to that. 

 

I'm not going to try to convince you.  But you're wrong. 

 

 

[B_RAD]

11 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I'm not going to try to convince you.  But you're wrong. 

 

 

 That settles it. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by B_RAD

[RJH]

As soon as GLOCK went 1 and 3 in LIMITED nationals shooting MAJOR ammo a couple of years ago against heavy 2011s with sub 1 pound triggers it kinda blew the "you gotta have gun X to win in USPSA" theories out of the water (except maybe in open).  I know they were heavily modded Glocks, but i doubt the  2011s they beat were plain jane guns.  Shoot what you want and practice with it

[bret]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

As soon as GLOCK went 1 and 3 in LIMITED nationals shooting MAJOR ammo a couple of years ago against heavy 2011s with sub 1 pound triggers it kinda blew the "you gotta have gun X to win in USPSA" theories out of the water (except maybe in open).  I know they were heavily modded Glocks, but i doubt the  2011s they beat were plain jane guns.  Shoot what you want and practice with it

Not much Glock in those Glocks.

 

There are some shooters that can shoot any platform and do well.

 

Steel framed guns dominate limited, open and production, for a reason, they give an advantage. 

[RJH]

8 minutes ago, bret said:

Not much Glock in those Glocks.

 

 But they also beat full custom 2011s, so the comparison holds.  I even pointed that out

 

 

8 minutes ago, bret said:

 

There are some shooters that can shoot any platform and do well.

 

Kinda the point

 

8 minutes ago, bret said:

 

Steel framed guns dominate limited, open and production, for a reason, they give an advantage. 

 

Possibly, but not anywhere near the advantage of practicing.  

[bret]

RJH

 

How many plastic fantastic shooters have won Nationals in Limited, Open, or Production? 

 

never said a steel framed gun was better than practice.

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, bret said:

RJH

 

How many plastic fantastic shooters have won Nationals in Limited, Open, or Production? 

 

never said a steel framed gun was better than practice.

You missed the except "open part"  of my first post you quoted i guess...

 

Production: Rob L, Dave S (several times), maybe Bob V?  These were all in the pre Stoger days and they beat all guns with plastic guns, matter of a fact after Beretta won the first production nationals I don't think a non plastic gun won again till Stoger with his beretta, almost like it was not the gun, but the shooter.... But I am going off memory there, so there could be another one in there.

 

Limited: I think just Dave S and Coley have won with plastic, but plastic has placed high many times and even if they were only 2nd or 3rd, they still beat 200 2011s

 

L10: Dave S a few times and I think Bob V here as well

 

And don't forget CO:  Only Max M has won here, he must be shooting a steel gun right?  .......Oh wait...

 

A fun runner up is the video of Bob V beating Eric G, of all people, at a pro am.   I will let you guess  who was shooting what.  (I know it ain't USPSA, that is why it is a fun runner up)

 

Clearly only metal guns win, except for well, a lot of the time

[B_RAD]

This was a good monthly “striker vs hammer” thread. 
 

see y’all next month. 
 

 

by the way, we should start a new division that allows open guns in production. Also, I think production should be 16 rnds in the mag. 
 

 

 

[RJH]

15 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

This was a good monthly “striker vs hammer” thread. 
 

see y’all next month. 
 

 

by the way, we should start a new division that allows open guns in production. Also, I think production should be 16 rnds in the mag. 
 

 

 

100% haha

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, bret said:

Steel framed guns dominate limited, open and production, for a reason, they give an advantage. 

 

steel framed guns only dominate production because stoeger shoots one. take him out of the mix and there would be several plastic guns at or near the top.

 

for me personally, a heavier gun is an advantage in limited, but my steel challenge times show that it clearly slows transitions. I'm not sure that with minor pf ammo in production it really makes much difference. Maybe you can split a *little* quicker on some targets with a heavier gun, but that is probably canceled out by the slightly slower transitions.

 

The real reason you see so many shadow 2's in production is they just feel nicer, and people with expendable incomes prefer nicer stuff.

[bimmer1980]

19 hours ago, MHicks said:

If the lighter plastic guns are better for transitions wouldn't more of the shooters who have mastered the fundamentals, grip and trigger control, gravitate back to them?

I have a Sp01 Shadow and a plastic xfive. Transitions are much easier with the xfive. Shooting fast is with the shadow. But thats more because the trigger issn´t as light and short. (1.6 KG vs <900grams)

 

You could hear Stoegers Podcast (the last or the one before) where he shot a glock in CO. He did feel the same thing about transitions.

Edited February 25, 2020 by bimmer1980

[TrackCage]

In a recent podcast, even Ben himself goes on to say lighter guns have some merit in CO. I mean, Mr. Metal Gun himself shoots a Glock in CO...

[bimmer1980]

2 hours ago, TrackCage said:

In a recent podcast, even Ben himself goes on to say lighter guns have some merit in CO. I mean, Mr. Metal Gun himself shoots a Glock in CO...

I think he even said, that he probably would go with a plastic gun in CO.

He didn´t feel disadvantaged with a stock Glock.

 

Thats what i mean. I think the better you are, the less advantages you get from a steel gun with a nice trigger over a faster (and easier) transitioning plastic gun.  

[TrackCage]

23 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said:

I think he even said, that he probably would go with a plastic gun in CO.

He didn´t feel disadvantaged with a stock Glock.

 

Thats what i mean. I think the better you are, the less advantages you get from a steel gun with a nice trigger over a faster (and easier) transitioning plastic gun.  

Agreed. I went from a Glock to a Tanfo then back to a Glock. The Tanfo was a really nice gun. I kinda just didn't feel like I gained that much or wanted to mess around with it.

[motosapiens]

6 hours ago, TrackCage said:

Agreed. I went from a Glock to a Tanfo then back to a Glock. The Tanfo was a really nice gun. I kinda just didn't feel like I gained that much or wanted to mess around with it.

 

this is an important point, as someone who has put alot of rounds downrange through a nice 2011 and nice 1911's and some customized cz's.... there is something to be said for taking a $600 gun off the shelf, putting a $150 drop-in trigger kit in it, and knowing it's going to work 100% of the time. It frees up a lot of bandwidth for practice, family, beer, etc....   I still prefer dinking around with really nice expensive guns, but if I don't have the time.....

[SGT_Schultz]

15 hours ago, TrackCage said:

In a recent podcast, even Ben himself goes on to say lighter guns have some merit in CO. I mean, Mr. Metal Gun himself shoots a Glock in CO...

 

Did he explain why? 

 

I typically need to hear someone's reasoning before I'll accept what they say.

[bimmer1980]

3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Did he explain why? 

 

I typically need to hear someone's reasoning before I'll accept what they say.

Why not just listen to the podcast then ?

[robchavous]

Agreed. I went from a Glock to a Tanfo then back to a Glock. The Tanfo was a really nice gun. I kinda just didn't feel like I gained that much or wanted to mess around with it.

I sort of did the same. Started with an m&p for a year or so, bought into the steel gun hype, shot CZs the last few years up to GM, and now I picked up a 34 a few months ago and am debating dropping my Shadow 2s.

Another local GM also dropped his CZs middle of last year for a Glock.

One of my best friends, whose an even better GM, has always shot Glocks outside of about a 6 month stint where he tried to like a Shadow 2.

There's pros and cons to each, but I think the heavy gun thing is just hype for the most part. If you're good enough you can win with just about anything. Look at Nils stomping people with a $400 Canik.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[bimmer1980]

6 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Did he explain why? 

 

I typically need to hear someone's reasoning before I'll accept what they say.

 

Starts at about 18:25

[B_RAD]

4 hours ago, robchavous said:

I sort of did the same. Started with an m&p for a year or so, bought into the steel gun hype, shot CZs the last few years up to GM, and now I picked up a 34 a few months ago and am debating dropping my Shadow 2s.

Another local GM also dropped his CZs middle of last year for a Glock.

One of my best friends, whose an even better GM, has always shot Glocks outside of about a 6 month stint where he tried to like a Shadow 2.

There's pros and cons to each, but I think the heavy gun thing is just hype for the most part. If you're good enough you can win with just about anything. Look at Nils stomping people with a $400 Canik.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

I tried the Legion, Q5 SF and a shadow 2 this off-season. Shot a Glock all last year. I think I prefer lighter, striker fired guns. Right now I'm shooting the canik. Probably stick with it or switch back to the Glock. I just don't seem to care about "flatness". The 34 seems to be a turd on paper but it's really not.  

 

 

[zhunter]

Interesting thread.  I shot Shadows for several years, loved them.  Moved out of state and got out of the game.  Recently bought a Sig X5 Legion to start shooting again (first match is tomorrow) and the live fire has been very positive with the striker fired trigger.  I did get the GG kit and the AC Trigger shoe to max it out.  I really like the simplicity of the Legion, time and the timer will tell.