MPX pistol change to carbine question?

[ck1]

Trying to help my buddy convert his 8” MPX into a gun that's legal for PCC (without it getting too expensive for him)... not totally sure about the best way to do it...

 

If he adds an 8” barrel extension to bring it to 16”, then a stock adapter/stock, will he be allowed to use it? Or will he still have to SBR it?

Thinking once the extension is pinned/welded it’ll be a “rifle” and he should be ok to add the stock... but not sure?

Thanks.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by ck1

[MemphisMechanic]

If he only plans to shoot matches in his own state, why not SBR it?

[ck1]

9 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

If he only plans to shoot matches in his own state, why not SBR it?

 

So it'd be legal in his own state?

 

I don't think SBRing it is out, it's the wait time more than the money I think...

[ck1]

Doh, think I found my answer: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-lawfully-make-pistol-rifle-without-registering-firearm

[Nathanb]

Form 1 wait times are down to around thirty days. 
 

 

if you attach a shroud to bring barrel

length to 16.1 or longer you must pin and weld it. If not going the sbr route. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Nathanb

[brytec]

Send it to taccom3g.com To get 8.5 shroud to make it over 16” which would make it legal as long as you have attached fix stock

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, ck1 said:

 

So it'd be legal in his own state?

 

I don't think SBRing it is out, it's the wait time more than the money I think...

Yes. You can get a stamp in a few weeks nowdays. Put a real stock on the buffer tube so the USPSA guys are happy (and so it performs better than with a marginally decent shoulder weld from a brace.)
 

Shoot it 100% legally with zero other modifications.

 

The only thing to know is that you have to notify the gov’t if you take an SBR to another state. If you live near a state line and you frequently shoot matches there, or you travel to a lot of majors? It’s better to turn the gun into a 16” barrel rifle.

[Acer2428]

Get an additional barrel from ILWT or find a factory take-off IMO and then pin/weld a shroud to it.

 

I have two MPX SBR's and usually plan ahead on forms, but on short notice out of state, if you put a 16" bbl in it, it's no-longer in SBR form and no longer requires the ATF's blessing to travel with. Shoot it in 8" config at home, slap the 16" bbl in it if you need to. the shroud really doesn't add much weight and I run the same HG, so it's not much different other than movement/spacing from walls. 

 

If that's too much coin, just SBR it for $200, file an E-form 1 and be done. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Acer2428

[SwedishMoose]

If he likes the current length he can e-file form 1 it and get it approved within a month. If he plans to travel with it out of state he can do an ATF Form 5320.20 for it and it will more than likely get approved. Just keep in mind it takes about a month to process those. 

[ck1]

Thanks for the help guys... he’s just going Form 1/SBR it.

 

Taccom isn’t making the barrel extensions for the MPX anymore, a new 16” barrel runs about $500ish, and he’ll get hosed at a gun shop trying to trade up to the 16” PCC model, so SBRing it is actually the most economical way to go really...

[Bdh821]

Inleadwetrust.com offers barrels as an option 

[Acer2428]

As an option, you could sent the bbl+ext. to CLass 3 machining and have them chop/thread to 1/2x28 and pin/weld the taccom extension in one shot. I had that done to one of mine since I wanted a 6.5" bbl anyways.

[OPENB]

On 1/30/2020 at 9:15 AM, Acer2428 said:

Get an additional barrel from ILWT or find a factory take-off IMO and then pin/weld a shroud to it.

 

I have two MPX SBR's and usually plan ahead on forms, but on short notice out of state, if you put a 16" bbl in it, it's no-longer in SBR form and no longer requires the ATF's blessing to travel with. Shoot it in 8" config at home, slap the 16" bbl in it if you need to. the shroud really doesn't add much weight and I run the same HG, so it's not much different other than movement/spacing from walls. 

 

If that's too much coin, just SBR it for $200, file an E-form 1 and be done. 

This isn’t exactly legal. You can turn a pistol into a rifle, as described in this thread, but once that receiver has made that trip, it can’t be converted back into a pistol. Be careful.

[SwedishMoose]

11 hours ago, OPENB said:

This isn’t exactly legal. You can turn a pistol into a rifle, as described in this thread, but once that receiver has made that trip, it can’t be converted back into a pistol. Be careful.

 

SBR is a configuration. If you put the brace back on there it becomes a pistol in pistol configuration. There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people seem to think that you can't go back and forth, but you can as long as the configuration is legal in the area it's in. 

[Acer2428]

15 hours ago, OPENB said:

This isn’t exactly legal. You can turn a pistol into a rifle, as described in this thread, but once that receiver has made that trip, it can’t be converted back into a pistol. Be careful.

 

What I described is exactly legal, actually. I never turned it into a pistol. It went from an SBR (short barrel rifle) to a non-SBR configuration, and thus it just becomes a rifle. Which does not require the ATF's blessing to travel between state lines. 

[SwedishMoose]

I think it's pretty common now to assume people bought guns in pistol configuration since it means no $200 bribe and 9-12 month wait time for a Form 4 transfer.

 

Changing from SBR to Rifle and back to SBR might be a bit of grey area, @Acer2428

 

@OPENB

This can be observed in SCOTUS vs. Thompson Center Arms Co (1992), which determined that the definition of "made from" refers to the birth configuration.

Therefore, if it has been a pistol it will always be a pistol despite the configuration. It can go back and forth between a rifle and pistol, being that it was and always will be a pistol (since it was transferred as one.)

 

Note that this does not apply to guns that were designed to be rifles or shotguns, they are a bit more broadly defined. 

 

In NFA matters, where law refers to "design," it's referring to how the configuration was born, per se.

Where the law refers to "redesign," that refers to current configuration at any point in time.

 

In summary, if the gun was born a handgun, it cannot be born a rifle, and it will always legally be a handgun/pistol.The gun control act's definition for pistols is solely based on design (not redesign/remake/redesign).

 

NFA rules are always confusing but I hope this helps clear up any misinformation. 

[Chillywig]

5 hours ago, SwedishMoose said:

I think it's pretty common now to assume people bought guns in pistol configuration since it means no $200 bribe and 9-12 month wait time for a Form 4 transfer.

 

Changing from SBR to Rifle and back to SBR might be a bit of grey area, @Acer2428

 

@OPENB

This can be observed in SCOTUS vs. Thompson Center Arms Co (1992), which determined that the definition of "made from" refers to the birth configuration.

Therefore, if it has been a pistol it will always be a pistol despite the configuration. It can go back and forth between a rifle and pistol, being that it was and always will be a pistol (since it was transferred as one.)

 

Note that this does not apply to guns that were designed to be rifles or shotguns, they are a bit more broadly defined. 

 

In NFA matters, where law refers to "design," it's referring to how the configuration was born, per se.

Where the law refers to "redesign," that refers to current configuration at any point in time.

 

In summary, if the gun was born a handgun, it cannot be born a rifle, and it will always legally be a handgun/pistol.The gun control act's definition for pistols is solely based on design (not redesign/remake/redesign).

 

NFA rules are always confusing but I hope this helps clear up any misinformation. 

This was my understanding when it comes to stripped AR lowers. If you first build a lower as a pistol it is a pistol. With a pistol you can put a rifle length barrel and stock on and still be legal. However if the first build is into a rifle then it is always a rifle and can never be switched into a pistol. 

[TRUBL]

Take your cue from the thompson contender......it can be configured as a rifle or pistol, purchased both ways on the 4473

[SwedishMoose]

12 hours ago, Chillywig said:

This was my understanding when it comes to stripped AR lowers. If you first build a lower as a pistol it is a pistol. With a pistol you can put a rifle length barrel and stock on and still be legal. However if the first build is into a rifle then it is always a rifle and can never be switched into a pistol. 

 

If it's transferred as a firearm, it is always a firearm. The distinction here is if you buy a lower and it comes with a stock or brace already on it. But you don't want to manufacture it into a short barreled rifle by putting a <16" barrel and stock on. Because in it's configuration as a short barreled rifle, all restrictions apply, and if you don't have a tax stamp you're liable to be in trouble. 

 

There will be no record of the 'first build being into a rifle.' There will be a record of its status for the transfer, as Mr. Taccom said.

[MoRivera]

There's a transgender athlete joke in here somewhere.

[ck1]

Just now, MoRivera said:

There's a transgender athlete joke in here somewhere.

 

Hahahaha