What do you prefer - big match format

[toothandnail]

Big match possibly 175-250 shooters  12 stages. 

Would you prefer shoot all in 1 day (half the entries Sat. , half Sun.) and head home. Prize table Sunday 

Or 2 days, shoot 8 & 4 , prize table Sunday,  leave early. 

Or something entirely different? 

 

[goldfish]

Option 2, 2 days, shoot 8 & 4. prize table Sunday,  leave early.  ideal for out of town competitors. 

[Sarge]

Problem with shooting in one day format means Saturday shooters won’t be there Sunday to walk prize table. That’s why I always do random draw. Everybody knows what they won before they even shoot.

 

By Popular opinion 12 stages in one day was too much for all but the youngest, fittest shooters. And as we all know, they are a small fraction of who actually shoots these matches. If you get lucky and have two below average temp days it’s doable but a summertime match in the Midwest can be very hot and humid. That’s what happened to my match a few years back and why I changed how we do it now. Normally pretty nice here around Memorial Day but it got really hot that weekend and some didn’t even finish. Just packed up and went home.

 

12 stages, shoot half the match Saturday and the other half Sunday. But then you screw the staff if they have to shoot it all on Friday. So to be fair to your volunteers they need to shoot Thursday and Friday. This costs the match A LOT more money.

 

So be prepared for that or make it 10 stages and problem solved.

 

But either way, if you do prize table Sunday night everybody needs to be there to make that work.

  
Another thought, if you split into a 2 day match add a few more stages and charge more to make up for more staff expenses.

[toothandnail]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Problem with shooting in one day format means Saturday shooters won’t be there Sunday to walk prize table. That’s why I always do random draw. Everybody knows what they won before they even shoot.

 

By Popular opinion 12 stages in one day was too much for all but the youngest, fittest shooters. And as we all know, they are a small fraction of who actually shoots these matches. If you get lucky and have two below average temp days it’s doable but a summertime match in the Midwest can be very hot and humid. That’s what happened to my match a few years back and why I changed how we do it now. Normally pretty nice here around Memorial Day but it got really hot that weekend and some didn’t even finish. Just packed up and went home.

 

12 stages, shoot half the match Saturday and the other half Sunday. But then you screw the staff if they have to shoot it all on Friday. So to be fair to your volunteers they need to shoot Thursday and Friday. This costs the match A LOT more money.

 

So be prepared for that or make it 10 stages and problem solved.

 

But either way, if you do prize table Sunday night everybody needs to be there to make that work.

  
Another thought, if you split into a 2 day match add a few more stages and charge more to make up for more staff expenses.

I prefer the 2 day myself - that's what I'm used to in 3 gun, I've also thought about your suggestion of 2 days an 15 stages.

The feed back I've gotten so far seems the USPSA guys want a 1 day, 3 gunners prefer a 2 day. I guess it's kinda what you're used to.

[fishhunter3]

I like a 2 day format, shoot half the  stages  either am or pm on Saturday and the other half opposite time frame on Sunday, At one day big matches by stage 8 0r 9 all I can think about is going home.     

[rowdyb]

As it is just my opinion, I like to get there do it all in one day and leave. If I win a trophy mail it to me.

 

I prefer to get there and just be in the "zone" all for one go. Shorter travel from home and less money into stuff while gone. I much prefer to bang it out than drag it out.

[Acer2428]

2/3 Sat, 1/3 Sun AM + Prize Table. 

 

Having the Prize Table on Sunday sucks for the out of towners who shot Sat (because they need Sunday to drive home).

 

Doing 1/2 of the stages Sunday and THEN doing the drawn-out ceremonies Sunday takes too long.

 

7-8 Stages Sat, 4-5 Stages Sun AM + Awards and let everyone hit the road would be ideal. 

[zzt]

As I've posted before, prize table random draw after registration is really the only fair way to do it.  That way everyone has the same chances and you don't have to be there on another day if you don't want to.

 

13 stages in one day is too many, especially with larger squads.  What happens is one slow squad slows down the entire match.  Personally, I won't sign up for any USPSA match I can't shoot in one day.  For SCSA I'll shoot for more than one day if I want to shoot in more Divisions than can be accommodated in one day.  Even then, if the particular SCSA match is set up so that you start shooting at 8 AM and don't finish until after 4 PM, I'm not going.  I've also stopped going to most Monster shoots.  Starting at 9 AM and finishing at 7:30 PM is ridiculous.

[toothandnail]

My matches, start on time,  run on time, & finish on time. hardly ever do we miss the finish time by even an hour (major match)
At small monthly's if a squad wants to take their time that's fine but a major we keep things on schedule.
ETA other than a weather (lighting) delay, we keep on schedule
I've been to big matches that started 90 minutes late, and ran 3 hours behind, in most cases there is no excuse for that.

Edited January 10, 2020 by toothandnail

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

6 hours ago, zzt said:

As I've posted before, prize table random draw after registration is really the only fair way to do it.  That way everyone has the same chances and you don't have to be there on another day if you don't want to.

 

13 stages in one day is too many, especially with larger squads.  What happens is one slow squad slows down the entire match.  Personally, I won't sign up for any USPSA match I can't shoot in one day.  For SCSA I'll shoot for more than one day if I want to shoot in more Divisions than can be accommodated in one day.  Even then, if the particular SCSA match is set up so that you start shooting at 8 AM and don't finish until after 4 PM, I'm not going.  I've also stopped going to most Monster shoots.  Starting at 9 AM and finishing at 7:30 PM is ridiculous.

 

A local club runs a Monster Match where they have four stages of 50 rounds each.  Yeah, it's a long run per stage, but way better than 8 to 12 stages.

[zzt]

14 minutes ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

A local club runs a Monster Match where they have four stages of 50 rounds each.  Yeah, it's a long run per stage, but way better than 8 to 12 stages

 

I like those.  Two of the clubs I shoot at have 5 stage monster matches with a minimum of 40 shots each.  The club I was referring to above has lots of room and bays so they set up 10 or 12.  The longest stage was a 64 shot falling steel stage shot in three bays.  You started in one, shot, ran to the second, shot and ran to the third.  The third bay had two Texas Stars and a plate rack.  It was very time consuming to score and reset, plus it stacked all the squads up.

[ewthursby]

I like one day for up to 10 stages. If more than 10 stages I prefer two days. I very much liked the way Area 5 set their schedule in 2019. All sessions were PM/AM, which allowed walking stages the morning before you shot and a nice early start to drive home the next day when you finished. Random draw prize table is pretty much mandatory with such a schedule, but I don’t go to matches for prize table trinkets.


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[S&W627shooter]

One day shoot with a random prize table handed out at registration or at lunch.  Short awards at the end.

[wurm]

5 hours ago, S&W627shooter said:

One day shoot with a random prize table handed out at registration or at lunch.  Short awards at the end.

This for sure. Life is busy right now so if I can finish a match in one day I'll happily take that option.

[Don_B]

On 1/10/2020 at 8:36 AM, zzt said:

As I've posted before, prize table random draw after registration is really the only fair way to do it.  That way everyone has the same chances and you don't have to be there on another day if you don't want to.

 

13 stages in one day is too many, especially with larger squads.  What happens is one slow squad slows down the entire match.  Personally, I won't sign up for any USPSA match I can't shoot in one day.  For SCSA I'll shoot for more than one day if I want to shoot in more Divisions than can be accommodated in one day.  Even then, if the particular SCSA match is set up so that you start shooting at 8 AM and don't finish until after 4 PM, I'm not going.  I've also stopped going to most Monster shoots.  Starting at 9 AM and finishing at 7:30 PM is ridiculous.

I would respectively disagree that random draw prizes are the only fair way to do it. Many people feel that prizes and trophies should be awarded by performance. So I don't think either way is necessarily the only fair way. My vote is to award prizes by performance. 

 

With that being said I agree that 13 stages are too many for 1 day, I think any more than 8 are too many for 1 day. 

[toothandnail]

10 hours ago, Don_B said:

I would respectively disagree that random draw prizes are the only fair way to do it. Many people feel that prizes and trophies should be awarded by performance. So I don't think either way is necessarily the only fair way. My vote is to award prizes by performance. 

 

With that being said I agree that 13 stages are too many for 1 day, I think any more than 8 are too many for 1 day. 

I wont shoot a match with random draw, I wont run a match with random draw . Some like that, I don't.

[Don_B]

I had a friend that was in charge of a large match years ago and someone asked him if he would change the prize table to random draw. His reply was sure we can do that and we will also award the trophies by random draw! He explained that he felt prizes and trophies were supposed to be a recognition of how well you placed in the competition. 

 

[TRUBL]

First off......12 stages? Yeah, best to do that in a day 2 format.....Even if it's 8 one day and 4 the next.

 

So let me ask this......you guys that love the 1/2 day format, what are you guys actually doing the other half day? Personally, when I am shooting in the afternoon.....I am up at 7:00AM at the latest, get breakfast, then basically putz around for a few hours (boredom sets in) and then head to the range and stand around. If I am shooting in the morning......I go back to my room, shower up.....maybe nap, then do some putzin' around and wait for supper time. Personally, I'd rather do a full day shooting format, stay with the squad, even if I'm standing around. I know, a few of you (very few) bring your wives and do the shopping thing or see the sights.....what say the rest of you??

 

As for the prize table, I've done it many ways......they all suck and and they are all awesome!! Depending on how ya feel at the moment. The easy way is performance based (1st choice) or random draw (2nd choice)......Matt's been in this long enough, which ever way he decides to go, I am pretty sure he will annouce it prior to registration.....then you get to decide with your money.

Edited January 13, 2020 by TRUBL

[zzt]

So I place third in my Division and I get a bag of cleaning supplies from the performance based prize table.  How does that work?  Or does someone decide how the three guns on the prize table get divided among the top finishers in each Division?

 

The Championship matches I go to have a random draw prize table.  They also have a prize table for staff.  In addition, manufacturers and custom builders donate guns or other top prizes designated for the winner of a particular Division.  Then there is the big cash awards to the winners of each Division via a modified Lewis system.  3/4 of the entry fees go into the Lewis Class after expenses, so top payouts to the top shooters are really big.  The lower tiers don't get as much.   I haven't ever heard anyone complain about it being unfair.  I pay the extravagant match fees even though there is zero chance I'll be one of the top finishers, because I really want to shoot the match.

[toothandnail]

This is the match at Lead Farm  3-Gun Range.

It's the "same" match as was in Indiana last year. Jake, wasn't able to run it, the range didn't want to.  I have taken over, Jake is going to help as his work schedule allows, mostly advice, and stage design input, that kind of stuff.
Match will be
2 day,  
12 stages , 400-450 rounds
shoot 8/4, prize table early Sunday afternoon.
prize table in order of finish

most likely a 2 stage - night  side match if interest is there (limited entries)
There is lodging available on the range , limited number of rooms/beds, so act fast.

Edited January 14, 2020 by toothandnail

[TRUBL]

10 hours ago, toothandnail said:

This is the match at Lead Farm  3-Gun Range.

It's the "same" match as was in Indiana last year. Jake, wasn't able to run it, the range didn't want to.  I have taken over, Jake is going to help as his work schedule allows, mostly advice, and stage design input, that kind of stuff.
Match will be
2 day,  
12 stages , 400-450 rounds
shoot 8/4, prize table early Sunday afternoon.
prize table in order of finish

most likely a 2 stage - night  side match if interest is there (limited entries)
There is lodging available on the range , limited number of rooms/beds, so act fast.

hold it.....and they will come!!.....sounds good!!