Vortex Viper ?? vs. Strike Eagle vs. Razor

[chauncey]

I have a 1-4.SWFA which I like but want to move up to 1-6 or 1-8. Gotta keep up with the Jonses and I need all the help I can get...

 

I was looking at the Vortex Viper 1-6 ($600) and noticed the turrets took a ridiculous amount of effort to turn. Like I would want an adjustable wrench. The clicks were mushy and vague as well. I noticed this on both the in-stock Viper scopes.

 

I know the Viper is not the Razor but I didn't expect it to be worse than the Strike Eagle models.

 

1. Did I just find a bad batch?

2. Is the Razor this way too?

3. Is the Strike Eagle 1-8 that bad of a choice?

[Steve133]

I can't answer question 1., since I've looked through a few Vipers, but never spent much time messing with the adjustment turrets. Sorry. But 2 out of 3 isn't that bad, right?

 

2. No, the adjustment turrets on the Razor 1-6 are pretty easy to move. Clicks are maybe a little bit mushier than a top-of-the-line, high-magnification optic with exposed turrets that are intended to be adjusted regularly, but they're distinct enough that you're not going to turn straight through them or anything.

 

3. Some people like the Strike Eagle, and I'm not trying to throw them under the bus or anything, but... in my opinion, yeah, it is. I have heard it referred to as the most expensive optic in 3 gun, because it just adds $200-$300 to the cost of the better optic that you'll eventually buy anyway. All of that is driven by the generally low optical quality of the glass. The Razor has some great glass, and the Viper isn't too far behind it... but the Strike Eagle is much worse than either of them.

 

This is just me, but even if the turrets on every single Viper were so stiff that I needed a wrench to turn them, I'd probably still prefer it. Bad turrets are bad when you're zeroing... but bad glass is bad every time you look through it. I currently use a Razor, but started out with an SWFA 1-6x; based on that and some intermittent experience with a buddy's Strike Eagle, I'd say that the glass in your current 1-4x is much better. Even with the higher magnification, I'd call a Strike Eagle a downgrade.

[chauncey]

1. Thank you!

2. What turned you off to the SWFA 1-6?

[gerritm]

Have had all 3. Razor is the best, glass is awesome clear. Viper is next. Not HD but very good, equal to my Burris 1x8 XTR in clarity. Strike Eagle is Ok, not my first choice, but works. Changed that out to a Viper. For the money I would buy the Viper again unless I shoot a lot of longer 400 plus yards then it is hard to beat the Razor. We have 3-rifles going right now with a 1x6 Viper (granddaughter) 1x6 Razor HD (son), & a Burris 1x8 XTR on my rifle. Been very happy with the Burris for the money. 

 

gerritm

[Stuey]

1 - Must have been a bad one. I owned a Viper and then upgraded to a Razor.
2 - Razor is nice and clear. They are worth the money especially with Vortex’s warrant.


Vortex makes good products and they stand behind them.


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[Steve133]

2 hours ago, chauncey said:

1. Thank you!

2. What turned you off to the SWFA 1-6?

 

It's not so much that there was anything wrong with the SWFA (I still think that they're underappreciated in general, and I still have that one to use as a spare), just that I made the mistake of looking through a buddy's Razor during a match and realized that it's a little bit better in most regards. The image is a little clearer and brighter, and there's a tad less distortion around the edges of the field of view on 1x. I also realized that the FFP capability - a big part of the reason why I'd gravitated towards the SWFA in the first place - isn't all that significant in 3 gun, and I've gradually come to prefer the less cluttered reticle on the Razor, especially on 1x.

 

Even after I decided on upgrading, it's not like the difference was so extreme that I rushed out and bought a Razor immediately. I set aside my pennies and watched for good sale prices for a year or so before pulling the trigger on it.

[chauncey]

I am going to wait for Black Friday and see.what deals come up for (in order of preference)

1. Razor 1-6

2. SWFA 1-6

3. Sig 1-6

4. Viper 1-6 (better be a great deal)

 

Any DO NOT BUY options on this list?

[gerritm]

I bought the Viper & Razor off Gunbroker, bid on it and got a smokin deal. Much better than any deal even with sales & 10% off coupon I had. Check Gunbroker, Vortex warranty is lifetime thru company no questions.

 

gerritm

[Frankly]

Search for refurbished Vortex and there is a company that sells their refurbs, I've bought a Razor 1-6 II and a Viper 3-15ffp with no problems and they have been great scopes. 

 

My only complaints about the more expensive Vortex scopes is that they are the heaviest in their class and you absolutely need a throw lever because the zoom rings are tighter than a midget prom date.  Why Vortex doesn't just build the throw ring into the design is beyond me?

 

I had a Trijicon 1-4 Accupower that was light, reasonablely priced and decent glass... Sometimes I kind of wish I stopped there but the Razor 1 to 1 illumination is superb even with my astigmatism that makes red dots blobs. 

 

Agree you don't want FFP for 3Gun, I pretty much only use 1x or 6x so there is no point to it. I love it for longer range and target shooting though. 

 

I've owned a couple Strike Eagles and they are fine for the price, you can still recoup most of the cost and now that the 1-6s are only $219 on sale how can you complain? However if you have $400 you can get a used Trijicon 1-4 like above and it's a really decent scope if you can get past the 4x (which was standard up until a few years ago). 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Frankly

[chauncey]

I got scared away from the Trijicon's based upon review complaints of the reticle lines getting ridiculously thick at magnification.

 

This was in reference to 1-6 &1-8 scopes

[Southpaw]

I don't have a Viper, but the capped turrets are a set it and forget it thing and I've never heard of any complaints of them moving on their own, so I wouldn't be concerned about it. Razor turrets aren't like that though. I've tried the Strike Eagle 1-8x and didn't like it; 8x is too much for distance of our matches here at least I think. 

[HoMiE]

Check out the CMORE C3 rifle scope good 1-6, I like the reticle and check Todd Jarrett Instagram, there is a discount code there to get scope for $799

[mpeltier]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:31 AM, chauncey said:

 

3. Is the Strike Eagle 1-8 that bad of a choice?

 

I would not choose it for a 3-gun scope. Not because its not clear enough, but I am not a fan of the reticle, and I am one that insists on daylight visible illumination. The 1-8 Strike Eagle  is not daylight visible.

 

I do have one on a hunting rifle, and it is one of my favorite hunting scopes for Hogs, and I used it for Carribou this August. It survived some serious punishment, and the glass is not as bad as some would leave you to believe. I just wish it had a simpler, less cluttered reticle.

[SeattleDude]

Let me ask you a question. How serious are you about 3Gun? Are you planing to get better and continue this hobby? Do you want to get that competitive edge?

 

Will Strike Eagle work for 3gun? Yes. Is it awesome? Not really. Will it work for occasional local 3Gun match and cost cheap? Yes.

 

Now Razor is pretty much the top of the line scope for 3Gun Game. There are others, but Razor II-E is now lighter. It is stupid clear and built like a tank.

It does have AMAZING EYE relieve on full power and at 1x when you look through it , it is virtually boarder less.

 

In short. It DOES WORTH EVERY PENNY.

 

Vortex Viper PST II.... Much better than Strike Fire, but not even close to Razor. Especially at 6x.

[chauncey]

7 hours ago, SeattleDude said:

Let me ask you a question. How serious are you about 3Gun? Are you planing to get better and continue this hobby? Do you want to get that competitive edge?

 

Will Strike Eagle work for 3gun? Yes. Is it awesome? Not really. Will it work for occasional local 3Gun match and cost cheap? Yes.

 

Now Razor is pretty much the top of the line scope for 3Gun Game. There are others, but Razor II-E is now lighter. It is stupid clear and built like a tank.

It does have AMAZING EYE relieve on full power and at 1x when you look through it , it is virtually boarder less.

 

In short. It DOES WORTH EVERY PENNY.

 

Vortex Viper PST II.... Much better than Strike Fire, but not even close to Razor. Especially at 6x.

...you make it all sound so easy

 

If you read my responses above I have already removed the Strike Eagle from consideration. 

 

Truth be told I have several aspects of my 3gun rifle that need attention.

 

I am switching from Heavy Metal (due to lack of regional match availability) so need to spend funds on my AR also. As much as I would like to go All-In on an optic I need to drop money on a new AR upper, to the tune of about $800.

 

So for the price of a Razor I can get a Viper and a new upper.

 

My other reluctance with the Razor is that I have a hunch I am going to need/want a 1-8 optic sooner or later, not as match distances get longer but as targets get smaller. That's the problem that initially (in HM) moved me from irons to optics.

 

If the Razor were 1-8 for $1400 I would feel much better about the cost outlay. As it stands, there is not a quality 1-8 my price range. I may end up getting a new upper, and a Viper, until I have the funds for a quality 1-8. The Viper would then serve as a backup.

 

I don't really want to go the 2-optic route as I don't want to move to Open Division. I can't compete there from a gear or ability perspective and its not the direction I want to go.

[gerritm]

You will be fine with the Viper. My granddaughter has shot it for over a year and loves it. I have shot it, so has my son. We have gone out to 600 yards with it. Not an issue or problem.

 

Now not to change your mind, but take a look at the Burris XTR 1x8. I have been shooting mine for 3 years with not a single change in zero. Glass is as good or better than the Viper. Capped or uncapped turrets. I have the ballistic dot reticle which is very close to the Razor. Dot is super bright 2MOA. Midway has them on sale for $563.Lifetime warranty.

 

Just a thought.  https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1017280975?pid=867539

 

gerritm

[chauncey]

16 minutes ago, gerritm said:

You will be fine with the Viper. My granddaughter has shot it for over a year and loves it. I have shot it, so has my son. We have gone out to 600 yards with it. Not an issue or problem.

 

Now not to change your mind, but take a look at the Burris XTR 1x8. I have been shooting mine for 3 years with not a single change in zero. Glass is as good or better than the Viper. Capped or uncapped turrets. I have the ballistic dot reticle which is very close to the Razor. Dot is super bright 2MOA. Midway has them on sale for $563.Lifetime warranty.

 

Just a thought.  https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1017280975?pid=867539

 

gerritm

Thank you for your response.

 

I did check out the Burris a few times and it does appeal to me from the standpoint that it is a 1-8.

 

I typically check optics reviews on both Midway and Optics Planet and I got a little scared off by the higher percentage of negative reviews for the XTR vs. the Viper.

 

I absolutely believe yours has worked well for you but considering that this scope will spend its life getting dumped into barrels I would feel better taking the pessimistic approach, and going with the Viper.

[SeattleDude]

To each its own, but for the game of 3 gun anything over 6x is an overkill. I would say save a little bit and buy a used Razor (you can find them used for around 1k)

 

IMO Clarity of the glass is much more important then magnification. 

 

8x over 6x will not make you more accurate or faster or win you matches.

[mike4045]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:40 AM, chauncey said:

I am going to wait for Black Friday and see.what deals come up for (in order of preference)

1. Razor 1-6

2. SWFA 1-6

3. Sig 1-6

4. Viper 1-6 (better be a great deal)

 

Any DO NOT BUY options on this list?

I got my Razor last year on black Friday closeout. I think it was $800 shipped.

[chauncey]

5 hours ago, SeattleDude said:

To each its own, but for the game of 3 gun anything over 6x is an overkill. I would say save a little bit and buy a used Razor (you can find them used for around 1k)

 

IMO Clarity of the glass is much more important then magnification. 

 

8x over 6x will not make you more accurate or faster or win you matches.

The problem is that the targets keep getting smaller it seems.

 

The greater magnification makes it faster to find the target and easier to "aim small". 

 

I used to shoot HM with irons and I switched to optics not because of missing but because of not being able to locate the target quickly between shots.

 

I shot last Saturday using my 4x and then with a friend's 20x. Guess which scope allowed me to register bullseye hits faster and with greater consistency.

 

I agree at some point magnification (especially in competition) does "fall off a cliff". But I don't think it's between 6x and 8x.

[farinx]

If you want a 1-8 check out the Trijicon Accupower 1-8.  I've seen them on sale for ~$1000.  The glass is clear and the reticle is decent, but it's not daylight bright.  I prefer the razor.  

Edited October 10, 2019 by farinx

[The Donald]

Swampfox is coming out with a 1-10 scope with locking turrets, should be interesting for 3 gun.

[emjbe]

I have the SWFA 1-4 and a Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x.

In my opinion the  Strike Eagle 1-6 or 1-8 is a step down from the SWFA 1-4. I have a strike 1-6 and I prefer the SWFA 1-4 for 3 gun due to the glass being more clear, much less distorted, and the SWFA has a better eyebox. I can see 535 yard targets better in the 1-4 than I can with the strike 1-6.

 

The Razor is definitely a step up from the SWFA 1-4.

 

I've used a PST and I found the scope to be nearly as good at the Razor ... so much so that I regretted spending the extra $$ for the Razor.  To compare I put the PST and the Razor side-by-side and compared what matters most to me for 3gun: eyebox size.  The PST was 100% equal to the Razor. I'm not a glass expert at all, but the only place I could tell a difference between the PST and Razor glass clarity was after the sun set and it was getting dark. So, if I were buying a hunting optic and I know that my 400+ elk will only come out in the last 30 seconds of legal hunting time, I'd get the Razor.  For 3gun, if I had to do it over again, I'd get the PST.

 

Having said that, I normally use a Leupold VX-6 HD 1-6x. I find the eyebox slightly better and the weight being exactly 7oz better with the only negative being lack of daylight-bright dot in the reticle. 

 

Of the other scopes mentioned by others above, I'd give a +1 to the Trijicon 1-8 and the CMORE C3 (with the enos discount). In my opinion the clarity of glass on each of those is on par with the Razor.  If you really want 1-8x - that Trijicon is nice and comes VERY highly endorsed by several people I know who consider it an upgrade from the Razor. The Accupower I looked at didn't have any issue with thick reticle ... the center cross is pretty thick at .75 MOA ... but you'd never hold on the center cross at anything > 250 yards ... you'd be down in the .25 MOA stadia lines which would cover ~1 inch at 400 yards.  I'm looking at it on Strelok and it looks pretty nice at distance ... I'll attach a snapshot of an AC plate at 480 yards with both an Accupower and a Razor MOA. Based on what I'm seeing and the subtensions, the Vortex Razor has thicker reticle (.5 MOA) than the Accupower, so you may want to confirm what you read about the Trijicon being ridiculously thick since it's half the thickness of the Razor.

 

btw, if you are comparing scopes, I'd highly recommend Strelok pro - you can visualize the reticle before you buy and get your holds based on various bullets and external ballistics.

 

 

[mpom]

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Edited October 13, 2019 by mpom
deleted

[chauncey]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:03 AM, emjbe said:

I have the SWFA 1-4 and a Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x.

In my opinion the  Strike Eagle 1-6 or 1-8 is a step down from the SWFA 1-4. I have a strike 1-6 and I prefer the SWFA 1-4 for 3 gun due to the glass being more clear, much less distorted, and the SWFA has a better eyebox. I can see 535 yard targets better in the 1-4 than I can with the strike 1-6.

 

The Razor is definitely a step up from the SWFA 1-4.

 

I've used a PST and I found the scope to be nearly as good at the Razor ... so much so that I regretted spending the extra $$ for the Razor.  To compare I put the PST and the Razor side-by-side and compared what matters most to me for 3gun: eyebox size.  The PST was 100% equal to the Razor. I'm not a glass expert at all, but the only place I could tell a difference between the PST and Razor glass clarity was after the sun set and it was getting dark. So, if I were buying a hunting optic and I know that my 400+ elk will only come out in the last 30 seconds of legal hunting time, I'd get the Razor.  For 3gun, if I had to do it over again, I'd get the PST.

 

Having said that, I normally use a Leupold VX-6 HD 1-6x. I find the eyebox slightly better and the weight being exactly 7oz better with the only negative being lack of daylight-bright dot in the reticle. 

 

Of the other scopes mentioned by others above, I'd give a +1 to the Trijicon 1-8 and the CMORE C3 (with the enos discount). In my opinion the clarity of glass on each of those is on par with the Razor.  If you really want 1-8x - that Trijicon is nice and comes VERY highly endorsed by several people I know who consider it an upgrade from the Razor. The Accupower I looked at didn't have any issue with thick reticle ... the center cross is pretty thick at .75 MOA ... but you'd never hold on the center cross at anything > 250 yards ... you'd be down in the .25 MOA stadia lines which would cover ~1 inch at 400 yards.  I'm looking at it on Strelok and it looks pretty nice at distance ... I'll attach a snapshot of an AC plate at 480 yards with both an Accupower and a Razor MOA. Based on what I'm seeing and the subtensions, the Vortex Razor has thicker reticle (.5 MOA) than the Accupower, so you may want to confirm what you read about the Trijicon being ridiculously thick since it's half the thickness of the Razor.

 

btw, if you are comparing scopes, I'd highly recommend Strelok pro - you can visualize the reticle before you buy and get your holds based on various bullets and external ballistics.