ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I was working up a load for 124 gr Hornady XTP testing between 4-4.4 of Titegroup, and this happened on round #8 of the 4.3. As you can see the case is stuck in the chamber, and the bottom part of it is blown out. The pressure blew out the extractor and part of the grip. My best guess is that I loaded a double charge. I was super careful loading these, but human error is what it is. Thoughts? I'd like to make sure whatever happens doesn't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Hello: maybe a two piece case? Only you will be able to tell if you double charged it. Bigger boom than the others? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galt11 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 As long as the load was made to the correct length and wasnt pushed shorter under the force of the slide coming forward, your data seems correct. Ive made may of that load with a different 124 but the same powder. My guess is either as you suggested a double charge or as Eric said, a stepped case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Do you have enough of the rim left to see what the headstamp was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m700 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Previous round cycled ok?Brass newer or older?Loaded on progressive?I've had primers pop out on me but the worst I got was a case stuck to bolt on AR. This seems like it may have been a bad piece of brassSent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Took the case out, here are the results. There was a weird ring left in the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Stepped cases alone don't fail like this. However, reloading errors with fast burning powders like Titegroup do. Textbook. Since this wasn't completely catastrophic I would put the possibilities as over charge, out of battery firing, or brass that was already damaged and thin or creased at the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Just now, ByzantineBonafide said: Took the case out, here are the results. There was a weird ring left in the barrel. Oh, the ring is interesting. I've dealt with them. It is possible that ring held the gun slightly out of battery. What brand of brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Eric, hard to say if it was a bigger boom, the surprise of the grips blowing out made me not notice. Memphis & Waco, there isn't enough on the case to read the headstamp. m700, the previous rounds were all fine, and I used a regular Lee single-stage. Not sure where the brass came from, something I nabbed on the range a few weeks ago I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Can you confirm it isn’t stepped on the inside? You have more than enough left to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 It is not stepped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 If that was a double charge (8 gr), you got LUCKY Can you seat a bullet with 8 gr in the case ? Have you checked other rounds for Bullet SetBack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 That looks like an overcharge...not necessarily a double, but overcharged, and possibly out of battery. A true double, and the headstamp is usually completely gone....by that pic, it looks like it just blew out the bottom of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Jack, I did actually try to seat a bullet with 8.6 in the case, and it did seat without spilling powder. Before, I was convinced that couldn't happen, and that I'd notice...and I solidly disproved that theory. Now that I've had a few hours to relax about it, yes, I DID get lucky. I contacted Sig and they are going to look it over and do all their tests, but think I'll just be out a little bit for an extractor replacement. I haven't looked at the other rounds yet, I was tempted to just chunk them and figure out what I need (new procedures and/or equipment) to make myself safer moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) Ok I’m going to ask the big question, why were you loading 9mm at 4.3 grains of TG with a 124 bullet? My guess is you’re trying to make major, but that doesn’t look like an open gun. Check out this thread, they are using less than 4 grains and to make minor comfortably with 124 probably around 3.5. Edited July 5, 2019 by HesedTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I cannot tell from the photo if the case was fully in the chamber so that it was fully supported. The blown out case looks as if it was not fully supported. This could happen, even with a ramped barrel, if the ramp was overcut, leaving some of the case unsupported, or if the cartridge failed to fully chamber, but the slide was forward enough to allow the hammer to drop. A case not completely crimped, or suffering a bulge near the base may have caused the slightly out of battery firing. You can check the ramp by dropping a round in the barrel (out of the gun) and seeing if there is any of the case ahead of the extractor groove visible. If there is, the ramp would seem to be overcut. If not, the bulge or crimp may have been a factor. A stepped case should have separated at the ledge, and this one did not, plus you have stated it was not stepped. The ring is mysterious. Could it have come from the bullet? I have not seen a double charge in a 9mm, but a double in a 45 disintegrates the portion of the barrel seen through the ejection port (at least the one I've seen did). I would expect more damage if it was a double charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 HesedTech, I was trying to find a load to approximate store-bought defensive ammo that was cheaper to use for practice (I've heard you shouldn't put anything but factory in your carry gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m700 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I would think if you have confidence, a load that cycles reliably is what you need. I know this is something that shakes confidence but take a step back and evaluate each step of the process and be deliberate in your actions, put muscle memory on holdSent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 How did you determine the OAL? Did you plunk and spin test the load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A4ME Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I use an old plastic shell holder from a box of ammo. I seat the primers. I turn the cases base down in the plastic tray and charge all 50 of them with powder. Then I use a nice bright little flashlight to examine the charges. I make sure each piece of brass has powder in it, then I tilt the tray slightly towards me and again use the flashlight to shine into several cases at the same time. That allows me to quickly pick up on charge levels that look higher, or lower, than the charge levels in the cases around them. You'd be surprised how quickly your eye and mind will work together to point out differences to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, HesedTech said: Ok I’m going to ask the big question, why were you loading 9mm at 4.3 grains of TG with a 124 bullet? My guess is you’re trying to make major, but that doesn’t look like an open gun. Check out this thread, they are using less than 4 grains and to make minor comfortably with 124 probably around 3.5. That’s out of a rifle. North of 4.0 is typical for a pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Hello: I am wondering if the ring came off the round before and then the next round went in and fired slightly out of battery. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 Guy, I initially thought the same thing about the ring, but it's bigger than the bullet, though seats perfectly on the case. 4n2t0, yes, I do the plunk test for the OAL. I had these at 1.065, though I saw other recommendations for longer (1.1" or so) but I figured I should prioritize what passes the plunk test in my individual gun (correct me if I'm wrong). m700, thanks for the encouragement. It certainly can shake confidence, but you're right, it's overcome-able. M1A4, I think that procedure is going to be a must for me going forward. Eirc, no idea, actually. It's a good theory, but unfortunately I have no way to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theWacoKid Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, ByzantineBonafide said: Eirc, no idea, actually. It's a good theory, but unfortunately I have no way to prove it. When I get the rings it stops the gun from getting into battery. Normally locks up pretty tight. My gun won't fire from this condition. Without a doubt it comes off the brass. Make a dummy round, slip the ring over the bullet, see how it goes into battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByzantineBonafide Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 WacoKid, what is causing the rings? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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