How the hell did this happen??!!

[MoRivera]

So the other night after coming back from a plate shoot, I took my PCC out to clean.  Before the pistol shoot I was sighting in my C-More on the PCC at the range, then just put it in a zipper case in a cubby in the range.  Left it there with some other things and took it back after the plate shoot.

 

Anyway, later at home I'm looking at my PCC and the M-Lok bolts that hold the angled fore grip on the rail are jammed up against the barrel....a Taccom Tensioned carbon fiber unit with muzzle brake.  Never been that way, but then just eyeing the front end of the carbine, it looks like the barrel is dipping down and not aligning concentrically in the hand guard. 

 

Example (after removing VFG):

 

 

You can see that the light in the rail holes on the bottom get progressively smaller towards the muzzle, as if the barrel is tilted down or the rail is canted upwards.  But the Red Dot and iron sights lined up just as before, and a laser bore sight in the chamber also linked up like before.  But then checking the laser through the muzzle closely, it looked as though the laser's beam was towards the top of the bore.

 

Oh crap.....something's bent.

 

So I removed the rail and eyed the alignment with the upper as well as using a few levels......and holy crap the barrel actually is pointing low.  It looks like it's coming out of the receiver that way.....

 

 

 

Oh no.  So then I take off the barrel nut, and it exposes this.....

 

 

 

It looks like a crimp on the lower side of the carbon fiber wrap, right where it's covered by the front edge of the barrel nut.  So from what I can tell, the barrel is slightly bent down right at the edge of the barrel nut....

 

 

 

How in the HELL did this happen?!  The only thing I can imagine is that someone during the plate match threw something heavy into the cubby but then realized it had stuff in it when the object struck the cased rifle, and moved along.  But it hit so hard that it bent the free-floating barrel, right at the nut!  And it's not like I can just bend it back, either.

 

I called Taccom and they don't have any more of these barrels as they were a special run that they're not doing anymore.  I ordered a newer model tensioned barrel with a brake, it's an aluminum wrap that's about an inch longer and a bit heavier than this one.  Not a huge deal as this carbon fiber was almost too light....but SON OF A %$#@&*!  That's it, this barrel is done!

 

I don't know if the same would have happened with an all-steel barrel, even a pencil profile one...unless something hit it really hard.  Also wonder if this could have happened later if I put the long gun in a barrel too hard in match.  Heck, I've had guitars that have taken some really major blows and have not warped or broke a wooden neck.  I've checked this with a few different uppers and it's the same....it's crimped/bent.  Also rolled it on a flat surface (like checking a pool cue) and you can see a little wobble.  Even a damaged upper receiver or rail would have been easier to replace....I'm $#!% out of luck with a barrel that's no longer available.

 

If ANYONE has an extra one of these or one they are selling, I'll buy it off you right away.  This is really infuriating.

Edited November 24, 2018 by MoRivera

[Steve RA]

I'd try shooting it with the "bent barrel" as it might still group well.  I had a bent barrel on a .22LR one time and other than readjusting the sights it still shot as well as before.

[MoRivera]

Y'think?  Maybe I'll give it a try.  But man this sucks.

[Steve RA]

Let us know how it works out.

[MoRivera]

Other thing that I wonder is if it's structurally compromised overall, as the carbon fiber wrap essentially has a crimp or fold in it now.  I.e....maybe it'd be one thing is an all-steel barrel had a more even warp in it.  But since this is a thin tensioned core and its supporting wrap is now cracked and not solid/even.....

Edited November 24, 2018 by MoRivera

[Steve RA]

You might check with the with the company that made it and see what they think.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I wouldn't fire that ….    

 

Not sure that a bullet going 1200 FPS would safely make a left hand turn …..   

 

I'd wait for a response from mfgr.      

[MoRivera]

I directed Taccom to this thread and asked for their opinion regarding a repair.  But from the conversation I had with them on the phone yesterday, it seemed like it was just done.  I have purchased a new aluminum 'featherweight' (listed at 22 oz., this barrel is 16) barrel with comp, but also bought an FSR off of a helpful member here.  I'll see which I like better.  I liked having the barrel only 16" total, but another inch won't be a big deal as long as the weight is kept down.

 

Just really bummed this happened and that I can't get another one.

 

Could this also be a material failure?  You figure that since the barrel is tensioned, the carbon fiber wrap is acting as a long bushing that has compressive force on either end.  And then a part of it gave way right where we see the 'fold', like a support beam that developed a crack or dimple/buckle or something.....with the result being one side of the bushing/cylinder not supporting as much as the other, and hence a bend under the compressive force of the tensioning.  Again, I never actually saw anything happen to the cased rifle, so I also can't say that it didn't somehow happen on its own after some normal use.  Wondering is anyone else has ever had a tensioned barrel 'fail' like this.

Edited November 25, 2018 by MoRivera

[troupe]

If I had to guess, it has been bent by other forces, like you said, something dropped on it or could it have been dropped. If it has been dropped, there would sure be mark on the muzzle someplace.  Is the bend at the end of the barrel nut, if so the bend came form something heavy being dropped on it. The barrel nut end would be a leverage point. It is not a manufacture defect that caused that. Keep us informed as to what you find out. Is there video cameras at the range ?  Video goes along way.

[Startingover]

This concerns me, because I have the same barrel.

I love it, and did  notice yesterday that they are not on the website.

I don't know just how thin these barrels are, but I want to see what's under that sleeve.

[MoRivera]

Yeah if I had to guess something was dropped on it, as the dent/collapse point is right at the edge of the barrel nut and there are no marks elsewhere on the barrel.

[JsK]

The MBX is 17oz with the pinned and welded comp. All stainless, does not have a feed ramp but that's easy to fix.

[stick]

Contact Tim at Taccom.  He's a stand up guy.  See what he says about the barrel.  If it's any consolation, I have the Featherweight barrel with the comp and it's awesome.

[TRUBL]

Not sure what happened to that barrel.......we've been making that style of barrel actually for years. I do know that it didn't come out of the shop like that. Something must have hit that crushed it.....some how.

 

Anyways.......I directed him to return the barrel to us for repair. I think I can remove the brake, straighten the barrel and put a new carbon fiber sleeve and brake on. 

 

I will say this.......I have never, in 5 years seen that......I do know that if the carbon fiber is crushed, it will loose tension......but lets be real, that is not something that would 'normally' happen to a barrel........this is very extreme for sure.

[MoRivera]

Talked to Taccom, and they were very nice.  Will send it in and see if it's repairable, but if not then oh well.  Of course, wasn't implying that the barrel was sent to me like this as it definitely happened just recently, and it was great and dead-straight until then as far as I can tell.

 

I'll probably end up buying another Carbine Fiber one and just have a simple brake pinned/welded on front, just to make sure that timers pick up the blast.  Holding off on the newer aluminum-sleeved one.  Thanks for everyone's advice.

Edited November 26, 2018 by MoRivera

[Startingover]

21 hours ago, TRUBL said:

Not sure what happened to that barrel.......we've been making that style of barrel actually for years. I do know that it didn't come out of the shop like that. Something must have hit that crushed it.....some how.

 

Anyways.......I directed him to return the barrel to us for repair. I think I can remove the brake, straighten the barrel and put a new carbon fiber sleeve and brake on. 

 

I will say this.......I have never, in 5 years seen that......I do know that if the carbon fiber is crushed, it will loose tension......but lets be real, that is not something that would 'normally' happen to a barrel........this is very extreme for sure.

Why is this style barrel no longer available?

I love mine!

Its perfect for the guys that want an ultra lightweight performance piece, but don't want the actual end barrel behind your support hand!

 

[NoKimberDave]

Just seems odd, in that something that would have hit right there would have hit the handguard and had to bend that first, no? Seems it would have tweeked the receiver threads first. Or, something hit the muzzle and caused it to flex right there, which seems more likely. Odd for sure.

[124gr9mm]

On 11/24/2018 at 8:43 PM, MoRivera said:

Yeah if I had to guess something was dropped on it, as the dent/collapse point is right at the edge of the barrel nut and there are no marks elsewhere on the barrel.

 

Are there ANY other signs of scuffs/damage?

 

IMO a blunt force strong enough to do that would have left some kind of mark somewhere else.

[troupe]

Not if it was in a bag

[MoRivera]

 

 

On 11/27/2018 at 2:16 PM, NoKimberDave said:

Just seems odd, in that something that would have hit right there would have hit the handguard and had to bend that first, no? Seems it would have tweeked the receiver threads first. Or, something hit the muzzle and caused it to flex right there, which seems more likely. Odd for sure.

 Essentially, if it was leaning with just the top of the barrel supporting it and you put enough weight on it it could probably do this.  The barrel is free-floating, so let's say you have it propped up in a corner with the buttstock on the floor and the muzzle leaning against the wall (barrel is four inches longer than the hand guard), and then somebody fell against the rifle or put a big load against it, then it would probably bend at the first part where it meets the receiver...which is at the barrel nut.  And again, it was in a soft case so that could have padded it from showing an impact blow, but wouldn't give much if any protection against a large weight or mass pushing down on it.

 

The cubbies are used by a lot of shooters who can have heavy range bags, ammo cans, or the like....I know that I do.  A black soft rifle case can be hard to see in there if you've also got a winter jacket and other stuff around it as well.  But I don't remember the rifle taking a fall or slamming it on anything.  I don't remember anyone during the plate shoot putting stuff in there, but then there was about an hour that I  left it there since I was there early sighting it in, then went out to grab some coffee before the plate shoot started in the evening.  I put it flat on the rear floor of my SUV on the away home like I always do, and there as nothing heavy that could have rolled over it.

 

Here's a crude diagram of what I think could have happened as it was in the bag leaning in the cubby corner.....

 

 

What I also didn't include above was that when I took off the hand guard after noticing the bend at home, the barrel was pressing against the nut.  At first I thought it had bent the receiver threads so for safety sake (the upper receiver is easily replaceable) I cut off the nut, because it looked as though it would be digging into the barrel if I unthreaded it, or it could just be seized up (it didn't remove easily and I installed with only about 45 ft-lbs of torque).  I was hoping that it was the receiver and not the barrel that was bent.  When I got the nut off, that's when I noticed that the carbon fiber had kinked/dented or buckled at the point shown, which was right under the front edge of the nut.  The receiver is actually fine and I can mount other barrels onto it and they stay true.  If you look closely at the part indicated above...it's not a cut or gash...it's like a fold or kink.  Like imagine if you start to bend a cardboard paper towel core....it will start with a kink in the side as it 'fails'.

 

So maybe a) it was a blow/impact that applied enough lateral force on the barrel to bend it, or b) perhaps not enough weight/force to cause a permanent bend, but enough to dent/kink the carbon fiber support...weakening and buckling it at that point so the the barrel's pre-existing tension pulls more on one side, causing the warp.

 

Anyway, I'll be sending the barrel into Taccom at the end of the week to see if it can be repaired.  If not then chest la vie, it's gone and I can relish in my memories of our short time together.  

Edited November 29, 2018 by MoRivera

[MoRivera]

Double....

Edited November 29, 2018 by MoRivera

[NoKimberDave]

11 hours ago, MoRivera said:

 

 

 Essentially, if it was leaning with just the top of the barrel supporting it and you put enough weight on it it could probably do this.  The barrel is free-floating, so let's say you have it propped up in a corner with the buttstock on the floor and the muzzle leaning against the wall (barrel is four inches longer than the hand guard), and then somebody fell against the rifle or put a big load against it, then it would probably bend at the first part where it meets the receiver...which is at the barrel nut.  And again, it was in a soft case so that could have padded it from showing an impact blow, but wouldn't give much if any protection against a large weight or mass pushing down on it.

  

The cubbies are used by a lot of shooters who can have heavy range bags, ammo cans, or the like....I know that I do.  A black soft rifle case can be hard to see in there if you've also got a winter jacket and other stuff around it as well.  But I don't remember the rifle taking a fall or slamming it on anything.  I don't remember anyone during the plate shoot putting stuff in there, but then there was about an hour that I  left it there since I was there early sighting it in, then went out to grab some coffee before the plate shoot started in the evening.  I put it flat on the rear floor of my SUV on the away home like I always do, and there as nothing heavy that could have rolled over it.

 

Here's a crude diagram of what I think could have happened as it was in the bag leaning in the cubby corner.....

 

 

What I also didn't include above was that when I took off the hand guard after noticing the bend at home, the barrel was pressing against the nut.  At first I thought it had bent the receiver threads so for safety sake (the upper receiver is easily replaceable) I cut off the nut, because it looked as though it would be digging into the barrel if I unthreaded it, or it could just be seized up (it didn't remove easily and I installed with only about 45 ft-lbs of torque).  I was hoping that it was the receiver and not the barrel that was bent.  When I got the nut off, that's when I noticed that the carbon fiber had kinked/dented or buckled at the point shown, which was right under the front edge of the nut.  The receiver is actually fine and I can mount other barrels onto it and they stay true.  If you look closely at the part indicated above...it's not a cut or gash...it's like a fold or kink.  Like imagine if you start to bend a cardboard paper towel core....it will start with a kink in the side as it 'fails'.

 

So maybe a) it was a blow/impact that applied enough lateral force on the barrel to bend it, or b) perhaps not enough weight/force to cause a permanent bend, but enough to dent/kink the carbon fiber support...weakening and buckling it at that point so the the barrel's pre-existing tension pulls more on one side, causing the warp.

 

Anyway, I'll be sending the barrel into Taccom at the end of the week to see if it can be repaired.  If not then chest la vie, it's gone and I can relish in my memories of our short time together.  

 

Good diagram and that makes it a lot clearer with it resting on muzzle. And where red arrow is, is the spot I would have thought would bend, where in pics it looks to be several inches higher.

But your explanation of threads/nut seems to confirm your illustration.

 

Hope you get it all fixed up. Never seen that before!

[MoRivera]

1 hour ago, NoKimberDave said:

 

Good diagram and that makes it a lot clearer with it resting on muzzle. And where red arrow is, is the spot I would have thought would bend, where in pics it looks to be several inches higher.

But your explanation of threads/nut seems to confirm your illustration.

 

Hope you get it all fixed up. Never seen that before!

In the actual pic, the barrel is out of the receiver but when installed, the dent is right below where the top edge of the barrel nut is.  The particular barrel nut for that hand guard extends farther forward than others.  That's actually why I cut the nut off to remove it, because it had such a high collar that it seemed to almost dig into the barrel, and seemed to me it would have done so if I tried to thread it off like normal.  So I cut the bottom and 'pealed' it out so that I could tilt the remaining nut and slip it off.  And that's when I saw the damage.

 

I've got other barrels to go with in case this one is trashed so I'm prepared.  It just stinks because I really liked this one, and they're not made any more.

Edited November 29, 2018 by MoRivera

[GrumpyOne]

1 hour ago, MoRivera said:

In the actual pic, the barrel is out of the receiver but when installed, the dent is right below where the top edge of the barrel nut is.  The particular barrel nut for that hand guard extends farther forward than others.  That's actually why I cut the nut off to remove it, because it had such a high collar that it seemed to almost dig into the barrel, and seemed to me it would have done so if I tried to thread it off like normal.  So I cut the bottom and 'pealed' it out so that I could tilt the remaining nut and slip it off.  And that's when I saw the damage.

 

I've got other barrels to go with in case this one is trashed so I'm prepared.  It just stinks because I really liked this one, and they're not made any more.

The most important question, not yet asked....

 

How pissed were you when you took it out of the case and saw the damage?

[MoRivera]

I was more bewildered than really pissed, but then got really disappointed when I realized that I couldn't order another one.

 

Edit: Also, a shout out to Odin Works.....the barrel nut that I had to cut off was for an Odin Works Ragna handguard.  When I looked up their site for a replacement, it isn't listed (they list a different one for a different rail).  So I called customer service, and they got me another one in three days!  I was actually waiting for an invoice email, but then a package just showed up in the mail.  Talk about great support.

Edited November 30, 2018 by MoRivera