9mm Major Data-Shooters World Major Pistol Powder

[kamber]

53 minutes ago, AHI said:

have them explain ther 12 digit "lot number"if you can get them to answer. you may  learn it has more to do with when it was bottled not manufactured.

Shooters World only bottles the powder they dont make any thing. Its only a matter when  not if they put clean shot in a bottle labeled major or rifle.

       Been holding that one back too long. I know the guys that invested in SW they know there is a Quality control issue and it may get worse before it gets better.

Test every bottle never just start loading.

 

Ah, if the date within the lot number is the date that it was bottled and not the date it was manufactured, that would make sense. I'm waiting on a reply from them, shot the email right after I made my previous post.

[kamber]

I received a reply from SW regarding my email to them. It appears that the dates found in the lot number are of little significance; probably just bottling date or something else that has zero impact on the formulation of the powder itself. I bulk ordered 48lb's of SWMP and all jugs that I received were lot 314. I intend to load for a longer OAL under a 115gr JHP, so I'd highly prefer to not have to use more powder from the slower batch to make Major PF. I'm going to request to exchange my unopened 314 jugs for 514 jugs; I'll post an update here once I get a response from SW to support that request or not.

 

Below is the response I received to my email, which asked the same questions that I posted on the previous page of this thread:

 

"Hello Jason

 

Thanks for the email. A lot is a specific batch, we manufacture about 10,000 lbs of powder per lot. Lots may very from lot to lot on any and all powders. Lot 314 was just a little too slow for acceptable in some applications, mostly competitive 

shooter loading 9Major. We could have up to 3-5 different lots of powder at one time as we order no less than 30,000 lbs at a time. All other lots of this powder including lot 514 are certified within their specs of where they should be. only lot 314 is slow.

 

Hope this makes sense. Please le me know if you have any other questions.

 

Thank You"

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by kamber

[SeattleDude]

Yup. Lot 314 is slow. Need to work up load. uses roughly 1 grain more powder than Lot 514 with 115 and 124 to make same 170pf.

 

But its possible.

[iflyskyhigh]

Has anyone asked about exchanging a 314 for whatever the correct burn rate batch is, and received an answer?

[SeattleDude]

12 minutes ago, iflyskyhigh said:

Has anyone asked about exchanging a 314 for whatever the correct burn rate batch is, and received an answer?

 

I think it will be better if you simply email them as they are asking you to. I am pretty sure they will take care of you if you have some concerns.

 

I will copy and paste the letter that Shooters World have on their website below.

 

-----

 

Shooters World has found evidence of a slow lot of Major Pistol.  The burn rate of lot 314 is lower than normal, and results in lower velocity and pressure, when compared to other lots. 

 

We have no reason to believe that the slower burn rate of lot 314 will cause safety concerns.  Thus, we are not issuing a safety recall. 

 

In our analysis, we shot lots 314, 514 and 115 in several test loads.  They include 9mm Luger, .357 Magnum, and 10mm Auto.  Across all these standard calibers, we witnessed lots 514 and 115 to represent the characteristics of what we expect from Major Pistol. 

 

We are currently working with our manufacturer to determine the root cause.  And we are seeking to implement a secondary test load, most sensitive to changes in ballistic performance with this burn speed. 

 

Some shooters are using Major Pistol in 9mm Major competitions.  Because pressures in 9mm Major exceed both SAAMI and CIP standards, we do not publish nor condone such practices.  Nevertheless, Shooters World has no control over use of propellants after the sale.  We recognize that some shooters are willing to accept the risks inherent to deviations in standard loading practices, and outside recognized safe pressure levels. 

 

It is our understanding that shooters have been successful at meeting 9mm Major Power Factor velocities, loading either 115 or 124-grain projectiles, with lot 314.  The tradeoff to lot 314 is that the loader must use more propellant to meet their velocity objective.  The benefit is that those wishing to deviate from established and safe pressures will likely find they meet Major Power Factor at lower pressures, when using lot 314. 

 

Should this information and associated ballistic data not permit you to utilize the remains of your Major Pistol lot 314, please contact us at MajorPistol@gmail.com

 

The lot number on bottles and jugs of Major Pistol is located along the side of the container.  You’ll note a printed number series.  The LAST 3 digits define the lot number. 

 

Most Respectfully,

 

Karen, Ned and Ken

Shooters World, LLC

[iflyskyhigh]

 
I think it will be better if you simply email them as they are asking you to. I am pretty sure they will take care of you if you have some concerns.
 
I will copy and paste the letter that Shooters World have on their website below.
 
-----
 
Shooters World has found evidence of a slow lot of Major Pistol.  The burn rate of lot 314 is lower than normal, and results in lower velocity and pressure, when compared to other lots. 


 
We have no reason to believe that the slower burn rate of lot 314 will cause safety concerns.  Thus, we are not issuing a safety recall. 


 
In our analysis, we shot lots 314, 514 and 115 in several test loads.  They include 9mm Luger, .357 Magnum, and 10mm Auto.  Across all these standard calibers, we witnessed lots 514 and 115 to represent the characteristics of what we expect from Major Pistol. 


 
We are currently working with our manufacturer to determine the root cause.  And we are seeking to implement a secondary test load, most sensitive to changes in ballistic performance with this burn speed. 


 
Some shooters are using Major Pistol in 9mm Major competitions.  Because pressures in 9mm Major exceed both SAAMI and CIP standards, we do not publish nor condone such practices.  Nevertheless, Shooters World has no control over use of propellants after the sale.  We recognize that some shooters are willing to accept the risks inherent to deviations in standard loading practices, and outside recognized safe pressure levels. 


 
It is our understanding that shooters have been successful at meeting 9mm Major Power Factor velocities, loading either 115 or 124-grain projectiles, with lot 314.  The tradeoff to lot 314 is that the loader must use more propellant to meet their velocity objective.  The benefit is that those wishing to deviate from established and safe pressures will likely find they meet Major Power Factor at lower pressures, when using lot 314. 


 
Should this information and associated ballistic data not permit you to utilize the remains of your Major Pistol lot 314, please contact us at MajorPistol@gmail.com


 
The lot number on bottles and jugs of Major Pistol is located along the side of the container.  You’ll note a printed number series.  The LAST 3 digits define the lot number. 


 
Most Respectfully,


 
Karen, Ned and Ken

Shooters World, LLC

Yup. Got all that thanks. I’m sure they will.

Just wondering if anyone has actually gone through with exchanging one batch for another yet, and how much trouble it was or wasn’t? Trying to decide how much effort I’m willing to put into it.


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[TANFARM]

“ Some shooters are using Major Pistol to load Major Rounds “ ?.........huh?

[SeattleDude]

3 hours ago, TANFARM said:

“ Some shooters are using Major Pistol to load Major Rounds “ ?.........huh?

?

[MemphisMechanic]

3 hours ago, TANFARM said:

“ Some shooters are using Major Pistol to load Major Rounds “ ?.........huh?

It’s called lawyer speak. They can’t publicly admit they make the propellant specifically to load 9mm +p+ Hand Grenade with.

[mstewart]

My lot 514 took 1 grain more to reach the same velocity of the first one pound canister I bought to sample. It had no lot number on it at all. It must have been lot 314. The performance of their powder seems to be all over the place. 

[kamber]

32 minutes ago, mstewart said:

My lot 514 took 1 grain more to reach the same velocity of the first one pound canister I bought to sample. It had no lot number on it at all. It must have been lot 314. The performance of their powder seems to be all over the place. 

It must be 314, I think everyone else who has reported slow powder on the forums had a 314 lot.

[SeattleDude]

31 minutes ago, mstewart said:

My lot 514 took 1 grain more to reach the same velocity of the first one pound canister I bought to sample. It had no lot number on it at all. It must have been lot 314. The performance of their powder seems to be all over the place. 

 

 

It should be the other way around. Lot 314 is the Slow Lot.

 

It took exactly 1 full grain more of Lot 314 (10.7gr) to get to same Power Factor of Lot 514 (9.7gr) with 124gr MG JHP.

 

I just got new replacement 8lb Jugs of SWMP and they are Lot 115 . Time to work up new load again.

[falconpilot]

 I ordered 48lbs from Grafs couple days ago..wondering if anyone has got any lot 314 from them..

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by falconpilot

[SeattleDude]

9 minutes ago, falconpilot said:

 I ordered 48lbs from Grafs couple days ago..wondering if anyone has got any lot 314 from them..

 

 

It might be a good idea to email Shooters World. I am sure they have a list of Vendors that have this lot.

 

I know that Shooters World is completely out of Lot 514 and to my understanding Lot 314 was the most recent one.

 

But to be sure, I would email SW Support.

 

[kamber]

1 hour ago, SeattleDude said:

 

 

It should be the other way around. Lot 314 is the Slow Lot.

 

It took exactly 1 full grain more of Lot 314 (10.7gr) to get to same Power Factor of Lot 514 (9.7gr) with 124gr MG JHP.

 

I just got new replacement 8lb Jugs of SWMP and they are Lot 115 . Time to work up new load again.

 

Glad to hear they took care of you and replaced the 314 with 115. Let us know how 115 performs for you.

 

I'm still waiting to hear back after requesting a replacement non-314 lot.

Edited May 14, 2020 by kamber

[SeattleDude]

1 hour ago, kamber said:

 

Glad to hear they took care of you and replaced the 314 with 115. Let us know how 115 performs for you.

 

I'm still waiting to hear back after requesting a replacement non-314 lot.

 

Yup. sometimes next week I will do a load work up.

[falconpilot]

Called Grafs - they said their not selling any of lot 314..said they weeded it out..

[SeattleDude]

Just finished load work up for Lot 115 with 115gr and 124gr MG JHP  

 

I will post results of all three lots ( From Slow to Fast - 314 - 115 - 514 ) later today when I have a little bit of time. 

[SeattleDude]

Ok.  I dont want to flood you guys with an ocean of data on all work up and how I got there. Unless you want to LOL.  So here is the meat and potatoes. I am DONE LOL.

 

After very careful testing and load workups I can easily say that in order to Match LOT 514 Velocity, Lot 115 needs 0.5 Grain more powder and Lot 314 needs 1.0 Grain more.

 

Brass - New Rainier Arms

Primer - CCI400 SRP

Bullet - MG JHP 115 and 124gr

Chrono - Labradar (Velocity Data  @ 10ft for Power Factor)

OAL - 1.160

Pistol - AGW Chaos 9 Major (5inch Barrel w/2 poppels)

Sample Size - 10 rounds

 

 

Lot 514 (fastest)

 

124gr MG JHP

9.7gr - V10ft - 1371, PF - 170

 

115gr MG JHP

10.6gr - V10ft - 1482, PF - 170.4

 

 

Lot 115 (med)

 

124gr MG JHP

10.2gr - V10ft - 1383, ES-16, SD-6, PF - 171.2    (I can easily drop 0.1 gr and still be safe, very very tight Standard Deviation)

 

115gr MG JHP

11.0gr - V10ft - 1493, ES-24, SD-7.2, PF - 171.7

 

 

Lot 314 (slowest)

 

124gr MG JHP

10.6gr - V10ft - 1364, PF - 169.1

 

115gr MG JHP

11.2gr - V10ft - 1445, PF - 166.2  (Stopped as it was too much powder in the case to go further, will most likely require 11.6gr to get to 170PF)

 

 

[kamber]

Good looks @SeattleDude, thanks for sharing your findings!

[iflyskyhigh]

Ok.  I dont want to flood you guys with an ocean of data on all work up and how I got there. Unless you want to LOL.  So here is the meat and potatoes. I am DONE LOL.
 
After very careful testing and load workups I can easily say that in order to Match LOT 514 Velocity, Lot 115 needs 0.5 Grain more powder and Lot 314 needs 1.0 Grain more.
 
Brass - New Rainier Arms
Primer - CCI400 SRP
Bullet - MG JHP 115 and 124gr
Chrono - Labradar (Velocity Data  @ 10ft for Power Factor)
OAL - 1.160
Pistol - AGW Chaos 9 Major (5inch Barrel w/2 poppels)
Sample Size - 10 rounds
 
 
Lot 514 (fastest)
 
124gr MG JHP
9.7gr - V10ft - 1371, PF - 170
 
115gr MG JHP
10.6gr - V10ft - 1482, PF - 170.4
 
 
Lot 115 (med)
 
124gr MG JHP
10.2gr - V10ft - 1383, ES-16, SD-6, PF - 171.2    (I can easily drop 0.1 gr and still be safe, very very tight Standard Deviation)
 
115gr MG JHP
11.0gr - V10ft - 1493, ES-24, SD-7.2, PF - 171.7
 
 
Lot 314 (slowest)
 
124gr MG JHP
10.6gr - V10ft - 1364, PF - 169.1
 
115gr MG JHP
11.2gr - V10ft - 1445, PF - 166.2  (Stopped as it was too much powder in the case to go further, will most likely require 11.6gr to get to 170PF)
 
 

Thanks for the work.

I didn’t want to go through the hassle of exchange, but if I’m gonna make pf with my 115’s I might have too.

I know it’s only a half a grain between my lot 314 and lot 115 but if I need the space I guess I need the space.

[kamber]

@iflyskyhigh I just got a reply from SW. They are sending me replacement jugs of powder and prepaid shipping labels to send back my 314 lots.

[zzt]

If there is that much difference between lots of SWMP then I am going to switch to AA7, hoping it will be more consistent.  Plus it is made in the USA.

[SeattleDude]

18 minutes ago, zzt said:

If there is that much difference between lots of SWMP then I am going to switch to AA7, hoping it will be more consistent.  Plus it is made in the USA.

 

You can do that.

 

Or when you order, order 4-6 kegs of 8lb each and in the notes ask for lot 514 if possible or lot 115.

 

Or just email vendor before placing order and ask what lot numbers they have. Either way you will get taken care of and now we have load data on all Three lots.

[zzt]

3 minutes ago, SeattleDude said:

Or when you order, order 4-6 kegs of 8lb each and in the notes ask for lot 514 if possible or lot 115.

 

 

I already order as much powder and as many primers as will fit in one hazmat shipment.  I still have 12 lbs. of MP Lot 514 left from the last batch.  If I could get more 514 I'd consider it, but I've had really bad luck attaching qualifying notes to orders or specifying conditions when ordering over the phone.  Whoever pulls the order doesn't pay attention.