9mm Major Data-Shooters World Major Pistol Powder

[kamber]

36 minutes ago, iflyskyhigh said:

Just ordered and had delivered 2 weeks ago, from Grafs, an 8 pounder of Major Pistol.

Lot # 1112219 514. Numbers are a little smudged but I think that’s it.

Haven’t used it yet. Still making my through a 1000 or so loaded with with Silhouette.


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I'm looking to order from Grafs here shortly, good to know that it's a more recent lot (assuming 102219 = Oct 22 2019, and 112219 = November 22 2019). Hopefully your 8-pounder works out well!

[kamber]

So I never ended up getting a call back or voicemail from either Graf's or Midsouth, but did see that Powder Valley restocked SWMP sometime in the past 24 hours. Took the plunge and bought a ton of the 8lb'ers, will update here with a lot number once I receive them. Also sending an email to Shooter's World to ask if the issue of slower-than-usual Major Pistol was resolved, and if so, starting at which lot number.

[hurley326]

 
Thanks for the info. It seems at least 1-2 other forums members posted similar experiences with that lot number.
 
[mention=53085]hurley326[/mention], I'm wondering if you received a more recently produced lot than the notoriously slow 102219 314 lot?

I just contacted Graf's and Midsouth to ask what lot numbers they currently have in stock; both said they would give me a call back later this afternoon with an answer. I'll post an update here once they do.
 
 

Here is the lot I received. This was from Powder Valley about 2 months ago I think.





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[mstewart]

514 is the lot number I have that is considerably slower than the first batch I received. My 8 lb. canister is also mislabeled with Rifle instead of pistol. I purchased this a couple of months ago from Powder Valley. Shooters World said the label was wrong but powder was correct. It took .8 of a grain to reach the same power factor as first batch. Not sure if I am going o reorder. 

[hurley326]

10.1 grains gets me to about 171 PF under a 124 precision delta JHP.


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[clw42]

3 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

10.1 grains gets me to about 171 PF under a 124 precision delta JHP.


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Same for me with RMR 124 JHP's.

[zzt]

I still don't understand why you guys need so much powder.  I'm at 10.2 under a 115 ! 169 PF.

[hurley326]

15 minutes ago, zzt said:

I still don't understand why you guys need so much powder.  I'm at 10.2 under a 115 ! 169 PF.

 

What do you mean so much powder? I am using 10.1 for 124 bullet. I incorrectly stated my PF it’s at 169 for that load and it’s at 171 for my previous load at 10.2. I think that’s normal.

 

Heavier bullets typically require less powder due to longer length.

 

Other factors come into play tho like what gun are you shooting, what barrel length, and do you have popple holes?

 

I am in NJ and my last chrono session was at 53F for the temp and 30.4 for the barometric pressure. 

 

How far is your chrono from the end of your barrel? Mine is exactly 10 feet away I measure with tape measure every time. If your estimating or going 10-15ft away your going to get some differences. This is usually the case I find when there is discrepancy with different guys running close to the same load. 

 

Also I make sure to chrono when I have nice overcast exactly what the chrono calls for, but if your chrono in direct sunlight without the sun shields or overcast and using the diffuser then you may not have the appropriate amount of light. If you have overcast then don’t use the diffuser for more accurate chrono.

 

[hurley326]

1 hour ago, mstewart said:

514 is the lot number I have that is considerably slower than the first batch I received. My 8 lb. canister is also mislabeled with Rifle instead of pistol. I purchased this a couple of months ago from Powder Valley. Shooters World said the label was wrong but powder was correct. It took .8 of a grain to reach the same power factor as first batch. Not sure if I am going o reorder. 

Can you post your specs? It looks like two other guys have this lot now too but havnt heard anything bad about it from them. It seems to fine for me.

[iflyskyhigh]

I still don't understand why you guys need so much powder.  I'm at 10.2 under a 115 ! 169 PF.

Just curious bullet, coal, and gun.

I’m looking at changing from Silhouette to SWMP in my G17 Open gun.

I’m at 7.8grs Silhouette at 1.155” with an Everglades/RMR 115JHP.

That gives me right around 1475FPS. 170ish PF


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[mstewart]

I got 170.5 and 169.5 power factor with 8.8 gr. of SWMP with a 124 gr. CMJ bullet out of my Walther Q5 with a Lone Wolf 6 port comp. 1.160 OAL.  My chrono was 12 feet from muzzle. Temp was in the low 70's. 10 round average on both strings.

[OPENB]

2 hours ago, mstewart said:

I got 170.5 and 169.5 power factor with 8.8 gr. of SWMP with a 124 gr. CMJ bullet out of my Walther Q5 with a Lone Wolf 6 port comp. 1.160 OAL.  My chrono was 12 feet from muzzle. Temp was in the low 70's. 10 round average on both strings.

I’d check your chrono, cause 8.8 is way under what the rest of us need to make major with this powder. I’m using 10.5 under a 115 RMR, and 10.0 under a 124 bullet.  KKM 5.5” bull barrel, Binary Engineering comp, no holes. 1.165”. 

[zzt]

16 hours ago, hurley326 said:

 

What do you mean so much powder? I am using 10.1 for 124 bullet. I incorrectly stated my PF it’s at 169 for that load and it’s at 171 for my previous load at 10.2. I think that’s normal.

 

Heavier bullets typically require less powder due to longer length.

 

Other factors come into play tho like what gun are you shooting, what barrel length, and do you have popple holes?

 

I am in NJ and my last chrono session was at 53F for the temp and 30.4 for the barometric pressure. 

 

How far is your chrono from the end of your barrel? Mine is exactly 10 feet away I measure with tape measure every time. If your estimating or going 10-15ft away your going to get some differences. This is usually the case I find when there is discrepancy with different guys running close to the same load. 

 

Also I make sure to chrono when I have nice overcast exactly what the chrono calls for, but if your chrono in direct sunlight without the sun shields or overcast and using the diffuser then you may not have the appropriate amount of light. If you have overcast then don’t use the diffuser for more accurate chrono.

 

 

You are using about as much powder under a 124 as I am under a 115.  My load is CCI500, 10.2gr MP, 115 HAP @ 1.161" OAL fired out of a 5" Trubore barrel with custom comp cuts and two 3/16" poppels for 169 PF.   SD for the last 15-shot string was 5.9.

 

My chrono technique is the same I use for everything except shotshells.  Chrono is exactly 10' from the muzzle, because that is how the chrono station at matches is set up.  BTW, the chono station has always reported the same PF as I get in testing.  Chrono is completely in the shade.  I use the IR illuminators, because I get more consistent results and don't have to worry about cloud movement, etc.  I also shoot from a rest and make sure the bullet path is down the long axis of the chrono and parallel to the sensor ports.

[zzt]

16 hours ago, iflyskyhigh said:

I’m looking at changing from Silhouette to SWMP in my G17 Open gun.

 

See above for barrel and load data.  Gun is a full custom 2011.

 

I love Silhouette.  I used it for years in my 172 PF Open load.  When I switched to MP powder, the gun shot a lot softer and flatter.  When I finish the 12 lbs. I have left I might move to AA7 for no other reason than it is made in the USA.  It is the same powder, just made here instead of Europe.

[hurley326]

 
You are using about as much powder under a 124 as I am under a 115.  My load is CCI500, 10.2gr MP, 115 HAP @ 1.161" OAL fired out of a 5" Trubore barrel with custom comp cuts and two 3/16" poppels for 169 PF.   SD for the last 15-shot string was 5.9.
 
My chrono technique is the same I use for everything except shotshells.  Chrono is exactly 10' from the muzzle, because that is how the chrono station at matches is set up.  BTW, the chono station has always reported the same PF as I get in testing.  Chrono is completely in the shade.  I use the IR illuminators, because I get more consistent results and don't have to worry about cloud movement, etc.  I also shoot from a rest and make sure the bullet path is down the long axis of the chrono and parallel to the sensor ports.

Your doing all the right things then! Many times people aren’t and that’s usually where the problem starts. Extra kudos shooting from the rest for a straight bullet path, that’s a true chrono pro tip lol.

I am shooting out of a PT Honcho with no Popple holes. The barrel is 4.25” and then 2 1/8” of comp. Running OAL at 1.165 and 124gn JHP from Precision Delta.

Being that my barrel is 3/4” shorter than yours I think it’s normal that I would have almost a 7-10% reduction in velocity. Hence I need more powder to make PF.

This is consistent with other Honcho owners and many other open gun owners in this thread shooting about 10.0 +/- grains of SWM to make about 170 +/- PF with a 124gn bullet. Guys running 5”+ guns prolly are able to use a few grains less due to increased velocity from longer barrel.

In summary there is absolutely nothing wrong with the batch of powder I received. It appears only the one shooter who got the powder with the wrong label is experiencing a problem with his powder. I just want to clarify that because anyone reading this thread seeing a few of us go back and forth about velocity are going to get the wrong impression and assume there is some widespread problem with this powder if they don’t read every post and I just don’t think that’s the case.




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[hurley326]

 
See above for barrel and load data.  Gun is a full custom 2011.
 
I love Silhouette.  I used it for years in my 172 PF Open load.  When I switched to MP powder, the gun shot a lot softer and flatter.  When I finish the 12 lbs. I have left I might move to AA7 for no other reason than it is made in the USA.  It is the same powder, just made here instead of Europe.

I use AA7 mostly but have been playing with the SWM. In fact i have 16pounds of AA7 arriving today. I find the SWM a tiny bit softer but it seems much fiber powder and was giving me consistency issues with my powder measure. I don’t know for sure if it is fact finer but it appears that way, i would have to measure two charges side by side. The powder measure issue may be related to other issues though I haven’t diagnosed yet. The AA7 has been very reliable for me and I don’t think you can go wrong either way.


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[Furrly]

Running 10.0 gr SW , OAl 1.175, 170 PF out of my Akai shorty..MONEY!!

[clw42]

21 hours ago, zzt said:

I still don't understand why you guys need so much powder.  I'm at 10.2 under a 115 ! 169 PF.

 

I don't either, but after reading your process, my guess is that it could be my process.  I stand about 10' away, I don't shoot from a rest.  My SD is 16, my rounds are loaded to 1.17 (ish), some are a little longer, some a little shorter.  My average PF is 172.  Could I drop my charge a tenth or two, probably, but then I'm on the edge. I have a full length KKM Hybrid barrel with a short binary comp and two 3/16th holes and use CCI and Remington SRP's.

 

Side note, I did notice that I've got some over gas occurring at times (one out of the three shots I took from 2' had more spatter than the other two) so I decided to try Shooter's World Auto Pistol and CFE Pistol as a test.  With the SWAP, which is comparable to HS-6, I was at 8.1 grains; and with CFE I was at 6.9 grains (to make the same PF at my SWMP Load) - my SD's were 16 and 15 respectively.  Lastly, I loaded 9 rounds in a mag, three of each load.  I put them on a table and mixed them up, then loaded them into the mag.  I wanted as blind a test as I could muster on my own.  I noticed that the recoil impulse and dot movement were virtually identical between the three.  I wouldn't have been able to tell you which round fired had what powder behind it.  Originally I was thinking that maybe that extra gas was causing some unwanted muzzle rise.  In the end, I don't think it really matters that much or that it wasn't enough gas to actually matter.

 

[hurley326]

5 hours ago, clw42 said:

 

I don't either, but after reading your process, my guess is that it could be my process.  I stand about 10' away, I don't shoot from a rest.  My SD is 16, my rounds are loaded to 1.17 (ish), some are a little longer, some a little shorter.  My average PF is 172.  Could I drop my charge a tenth or two, probably, but then I'm on the edge. I have a full length KKM Hybrid barrel with a short binary comp and two 3/16th holes and use CCI and Remington SRP's.

 

Side note, I did notice that I've got some over gas occurring at times (one out of the three shots I took from 2' had more spatter than the other two) so I decided to try Shooter's World Auto Pistol and CFE Pistol as a test.  With the SWAP, which is comparable to HS-6, I was at 8.1 grains; and with CFE I was at 6.9 grains (to make the same PF at my SWMP Load) - my SD's were 16 and 15 respectively.  Lastly, I loaded 9 rounds in a mag, three of each load.  I put them on a table and mixed them up, then loaded them into the mag.  I wanted as blind a test as I could muster on my own.  I noticed that the recoil impulse and dot movement were virtually identical between the three.  I wouldn't have been able to tell you which round fired had what powder behind it.  Originally I was thinking that maybe that extra gas was causing some unwanted muzzle rise.  In the end, I don't think it really matters that much or that it wasn't enough gas to actually matter.

 

this is also worth a shot at looking at. But to make sure your scale is calibrated. Probably the least likely but worth a look.

[clw42]

11 hours ago, hurley326 said:

this is also worth a shot at looking at. But to make sure your scale is calibrated. Probably the least likely but worth a look.

 

I believe it is.  I've calibrated it with the weights, and I have a 124.6 grain bullet I use to spot check.  So it may be off, but it's off consistently.  Also, I notice that my loads for CFE is in line with what other folks are using for that and Auto Comp and my SW Auto Pistol load is in the same neighborhood as those using HS-6. 

[TANFARM]

Does anyone have solid information on the 514 lot of Major pistol??

I have multiple jugs....thanks!!

[racer-x]

Yes,

I did a comparison to AA7 in this thread using this lot of SWMP.

 

 

[zzt]

19 hours ago, clw42 said:

I stand about 10' away, I don't shoot from a rest.

 

About 10' really is okay. One foot either way will only add or subtract 6fps according to ballistic calculators.  The real problem is flight path.  If you consistently aim at the same spot when chronoing, you get a valid SD.  However, you do not necessarily know the actual velocity.  Any bullet path that is not directly down the long axis and parallel to the sensors is longer.  Since it is longer it takes more time to cross both sensors, resulting in a lower reported velocity.  The more off the correct path, the slower the velocity reported.  It varies by a surprising amount, and that may be why a lot of you are using more powder than others.

 

I rediscovered this while chronoing at my home club.  One of the pistol lanes is set up for accuracy testing with a Ransom rest.  Removing the rest leaves a solid pedestal.  I placed an 8' plank between the shooting table and the pedestal, set the chrono at the far end and wooden rests.  The height of the rest was set so that placing the bottom of the frame directly on the rest, the bullet path was correct.  This worked perfectly.  I had 6' between the muzzle and the first screen, and it was simple to correct to 10'.

 

One day I was testing a batch of ammo that should have been identical to the previous batches.  It wasn't.  WTH?  Why are these slower?  Well, my frame mount had loosened.  Instead of hitting where I was aiming at 25 yards they were 9" right and 12" high.  That accounted for the lost velocity.  So I decided to test.  With the mount tightened and everything set up properly.  I shot a string while intentionally aiming along a line from 2" left to 2" right.  Velocity was lower and SD was higher.  So even seemingly small variations make a difference.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I do chrono at 10' for PF, because I want to know what to expect at the chrono station at a major match.

[clw42]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

About 10' really is okay. One foot either way will only add or subtract 6fps according to ballistic calculators.  The real problem is flight path.  If you consistently aim at the same spot when chronoing, you get a valid SD.  However, you do not necessarily know the actual velocity.  Any bullet path that is not directly down the long axis and parallel to the sensors is longer.  Since it is longer it takes more time to cross both sensors, resulting in a lower reported velocity.  The more off the correct path, the slower the velocity reported.  It varies by a surprising amount, and that may be why a lot of you are using more powder than others.

 

I rediscovered this while chronoing at my home club.  One of the pistol lanes is set up for accuracy testing with a Ransom rest.  Removing the rest leaves a solid pedestal.  I placed an 8' plank between the shooting table and the pedestal, set the chrono at the far end and wooden rests.  The height of the rest was set so that placing the bottom of the frame directly on the rest, the bullet path was correct.  This worked perfectly.  I had 6' between the muzzle and the first screen, and it was simple to correct to 10'.

 

One day I was testing a batch of ammo that should have been identical to the previous batches.  It wasn't.  WTH?  Why are these slower?  Well, my frame mount had loosened.  Instead of hitting where I was aiming at 25 yards they were 9" right and 12" high.  That accounted for the lost velocity.  So I decided to test.  With the mount tightened and everything set up properly.  I shot a string while intentionally aiming along a line from 2" left to 2" right.  Velocity was lower and SD was higher.  So even seemingly small variations make a difference.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I do chrono at 10' for PF, because I want to know what to expect at the chrono station at a major match.

 

 

Very interesting.  Thank you for that information.  Next time I go to the range, I'll take this knowledge with me and report back with my chrono results.

[mstewart]

On 4/6/2020 at 7:46 PM, OPENB said:

I’d check your chrono, cause 8.8 is way under what the rest of us need to make major with this powder. I’m using 10.5 under a 115 RMR, and 10.0 under a 124 bullet.  KKM 5.5” bull barrel, Binary Engineering comp, no holes. 1.165”. 

I also shot the same bullets that day with 6.4 gr. of N350 and got a velocity of 1291 FPS which is only 9 FPS slower than VV's published data for that load. My load length was .018 longer than theirs but I don't think my chrono is too far off. I have a shout out to a buddy to see if I can borrow his chrono to double check mine. Both loads were loaded with the same two scales  (I double check with both)) which had  calibrated. The two lots of SWMP I have purchased have had very different chrono results.