TG vs Sport Pistol vs CFE-P, Vs Clean shot smoke test

[mauk517]

I've been using TG for a couple of years now and I have not noticed or I cant confirm that it melted.

Just curious what is your load recipe for the SP and out of what gun.

 

[Eman]

I just went to the range earlier and shot about 150 rounds of sport pistol under a Eggleston 147gr. round nose with 3.1gr or sport pistol, and a OAL of 1.140. I didn’t have a Chony so I would hesitate to say it made power factor. It was getting closer to dark, and I saw a decent flash out of the muzzle, and some small sparks from powder burning out. 

 

My go-to load is 3.0gr of titegroup with same bullet and same OAL. 

 

I think TG and SP are about the same. I am not the expert, but it seemed like the barrel heated up a little slower.Less stress on the front fiber optic. 

 

 I shot a 32 round uspsa stage 4 times, and did some bill drills. 

[LaPoint]

I ran about 40 of them across the chrono a week ago.  I was using mixed range pick up brass, 147 grn Acme FP, 2.9 grns of SP loaded to 1.085 (more or less) at 885-910fps.  I was shooting them out of a G22C with a Lone Wolf 5" 9mm conversion barrel.  I think TG is a buck so cheaper than SP but I haven't done a cost per round comparison for equivalent power factor loads. 

[NWfront]

As planned I switched back to the TG I had but after a a couple hundred rounds I ordered another 8lb jug of SP.  The gun just runs much cleaner and cooler.

[12glocks]

I am in the process of switching over to Sport Pistol from N320.  Sport Pistol makes a lot of sense and I do not shoot coated bullets.  I did think SP  was less smokey that TG in your video.

[evild]

On 10/1/2018 at 1:47 PM, mauk517 said:

I've been using TG for a couple of years now and I have not noticed or I cant confirm that it melted.

Just curious what is your load recipe for the SP and out of what gun.

 

Canik TP9SFX, TG was 3.9 at 1.130, CFE was 3.5 at 1.100, don't remembers the other loads, i lost my data sheet for those probably around thecsame at TG

[shakin_bakin]

I'm through about 5,000 rounds of SP using Acme, Blue, and extreme. I see smoke no matter what and think SP and TG are both similar. Its easier for me to get SP and I have very good deviations with it. Sadly, I've always preferred Hogdon powders rifle or pistol, so I feel like a bit of a traitor using SP. But it works and is sometimes on sale which makes it even better. However, what I didnt test and wished I would have before I ran out of TG was how they patterned at a 130PF with the same bullets, same OAL's, same brass, etc. To see if TG was more accurate for me than SP. I failed there, but look around and see if I have a 1 pounder hidden to test that. 
 

[HesedTech]

I keep reading about “accuracy” of one powder vs another so I’m going to ask the dumb question and see where it goes. 

 

If the muzzle exit velocity is the same between powders should not the bullet travel exactly the same?

 

BTW please answer with data not “feeling.” We all have our ideas, but in the end is there a real difference in group sizes, assuming the same bullet, and velocity.

 

Yes I really would like to know if a particular powder is more accurate than another. I do understand one powder may have a tighter SD over another due to burn characteristics and that would change the point of impact slightly. But the question is, given the same velocity of the bullet?

 

BTW I shoot TG and PD 147 FMJ RN and most if not all accuracy issues are in my hands and eyes, not the load. 

[IHAVEGAS]

42 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

I keep reading about “accuracy” of one powder vs another so I’m going to ask the dumb question and see where it goes. 

 

If the muzzle exit velocity is the same between powders should not the bullet travel exactly the same?

 

Rifle based, but interesting to think about. 

 

Seems reasonable that different powder burn rates would effect barrels a bit differently even though you could adjust for the same exit velocity. 

 

 

 

[HesedTech]

I did think about the rifle because I know precision shooters who “tune” the burn rate to both bullet weight, barrel length and harmonics (I forgot about how much rifles bend with each shot). But pistols used in USPSA are basically between 4.5” and 6” these days so I figured at some point “slow” powders may be still in the process of combustion after the bullet has left the barrel.

 

With that in mind, any late combustion of powder may be “wasted” with pistols and faster burning powders (denser) like TG are optimum for the barrel lengths used. 

 

But I really wonder if optimum can be quantified with data somehow. 

 

The best part about USPSA is we get scored on points per second and so adequate and not precision accuracy is all that is required.

 

I need to be more adequate, however. 

 

Thanks, I like your comment. 

[Mac_Menamy]

Been running SP for about a year now and haven't had any issues. 3.2 grains with a 147 Blue Bullet for 130pf every single time. Shooting out of a G34 but just purchased a Shadow 2. I don't see my load changing too much but hoping the consistency and cleanliness stays!

[BallisticianX]

I didnt watch the videos so I cant comment on if its overly bad smoking. But if all the powders are smoking with the same bullet equally and you feel its excessive smoke Id assess its the bullet coating. I will say with my experience with TG is it does not play well with coated lead bullets in any of the higher pressure cartridges like 9mm, 38 super, and 40, especially 9mm. It does however work with lower pressure rounds like 38 spcl and 45 with good accuracy and no more than usual smoke. I reserve TG for plated/jacketed in 9mm, 38 Super, and 40. For heavier coated lead bullets in 9mm (135gr+) I actually like WSF. Soft, accurate, clean, and no major smoke. Herco used to be the go to for 9's with heavier lead pills and WSF is regarded as its best replacement and I can say it works well. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by BallisticianX

[HesedTech]

If it helps I just did a test load of SNS 124 “New” RN coated bullets. With TG the smoke was no more than 124 FMJHP from Everglades. However I can smell the coating of the SNS bullets which means it does burn some. Additionally there was no difference in cleanliness of either round.

 

SNS 124 gr. Coated 3.5 gr of TG

Everglades 3.9 gr of TG

Both using CBC 9MM range pick-up brass.

Both OAL 1.14 equal accuracy at 25YD hand held 2.5” groups.

Tanfoglio S2 not reamed.

I was just practicing with both and loaded to an estimated 130 PF. I’ve decided to not purchase either in volume and stick with my PD 147 FMJRN loads.

[Darrell]

On 8/30/2018 at 6:28 PM, armedmoose said:

Thanks for posting this .. it squashed my thoughts of switching powders around, but now just going to finish my 8lb jug of CFE-P.

Spray the comp with some case lube before shooting coated bullets, and after every few mags full and the comp will stay clean. I mix my own case lube with lanolin and Heet per the instructions (2 bottles of heat and 1.5 oz of heated lanolin) mix well and put in spray bottle and just spray the comp ports every so ofteen.

[SteelCityShooter]

Very preliminary testing but I just tried two 9 mm loads back to back using 125 gr Blue coated bullets, one with  4.0 gr of TiteGroup and the other with 4.0 gr of Sport Pistol both at an OAL of 1.135".  My chrono showed the velocities out of my 16" PCC within 35 fps of each other with the SP loads being slower.  However, the SP loads had a softer recoil and the difference was more than the velocity difference should explain.

[rowdyb]

at 850am facing east at frostproof they all smoke too much.