Let's play "Which Penalty?" (Production Start Position Question)

[Prov1x]

19 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

if it's a case of shooter is loaded but start is specified as unloaded, yeah, you have to have them unload.

 

otoh, if it's a loaded start, and the shooter forgets to load a mag, or forgets to chamber a round, do you need to coach them? I say no. DNROI also says no.

 

And if it's a division requirement, I think it's on the shooter. The wsb start posittion doesn't say hammer down, the division requirements say that.

My thoughts as well.

[Prov1x]

19 hours ago, Hammer002 said:

 

Many matches line everyone up before the first stage and do an equipment check before first shot fired.

I've been shooting for almost 9 years now and I have never had this happen to me. 

[mwray]

I've been shooting for almost 9 years now and I have never had this happen to me. 

Yeah me neither. It’s easier to just ask them what division when they step up to the line

[racerba]

1 hour ago, Prov1x said:

I've been shooting for almost 9 years now and I have never had this happen to me. 

usually IPSC matches do that...USPSA - not so much...

[racerba]

10 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

Ok, so we get a specific exemption from our required coaching for that. What about if he forgets his mags? what if he has a mag on his magnet in production? do I coach him to remove it?

 

It says right there in the above quoted rule that  'the competitor is always responsible for the handling of the handgun....... apparently unless he leaves his hammer cocked, in which case the RO has to coach him how to comply with division requirements......  very confusing.....

You are making sure that the shooter complies with the WSB and handgun ready condition...everything else is coaching...It's not specific exemptions...
 

[teros135]

2 hours ago, Prov1x said:

I've been shooting for almost 9 years now and I have never had this happen to me. 

 

I've had it happen at least twice at USPSA L2 matches.  Not a bad idea, actually.  

[Gary Stevens]

3 hours ago, Prov1x said:

I've been shooting for almost 9 years now and I have never had this happen to me. 

 

I (we) do one on the first squad of the day at the Single Stack Nationals, now reverted to the Single Stack classic.

[OPENB]

It's also been done at Battle in the Blue Grass.

[matteekay]

4 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

I (we) do one on the first squad of the day at the Single Stack Nationals, now reverted to the Single Stack classic.

 

I've never had to do this, but it definitely makes sense at a single division competition. It'd be pretty easy to spot a holster in front of the hip bone, etc.

 

Just out of curiosity - do they make everyone stick their gun in the box? Or only if it looks really suspect?

[GrumpyOne]

21 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

I've never had to do this, but it definitely makes sense at a single division competition. It'd be pretty easy to spot a holster in front of the hip bone, etc.

 

Just out of curiosity - do they make everyone stick their gun in the box? Or only if it looks really suspect?

Usually, if there is a Chrono stage, the box is there...everyone's blaster goes into the box. 

[motosapiens]

32 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

It'd be pretty easy to spot a holster in front of the hip bone, etc.

 

lol, there are a lot of them that are too close to call. and where the heck are people's hipbones anyway. It's not really appropriate for you to start feeling around for them, and if you ask someone smart to point to them, they will point to the spot just in front of their holster and pouches.

[matteekay]

6 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

lol, there are a lot of them that are too close to call.

 

True, though you could easily spot someone with a "here is my gun and here is my pistol" Limited-type placement  .

 

 

6 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

It's not really appropriate for you to start feeling around for them

 

WHAT COULD GO WRONG?! Lol.

[Prov1x]

12 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

I (we) do one on the first squad of the day at the Single Stack Nationals, now reverted to the Single Stack classic.

I've also shot the SSNationals 4 out of the last 5 years and have never had this happen there either. I have seen several holsters at that match farther forward than a limited holster and lower than should be allowed and yet nobody says anything. Of course it could be the shooter as to why. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Prov1x

[Gary Stevens]

8 minutes ago, Prov1x said:

I've also shot the SSNationals 4 out of the last 5 years and have never had this happen there either. I have seen several holsters at that match farther forward than a limited holster and lower than should be allowed and yet nobody says anything. Of course it could be the shooter as to why. 

 

All I can tell you is someone failed to do their job. Their failure is why I have had to put people on Open after they have shot 3-4 stages.

[IHAVEGAS]

Speaking of production equipment checks , was their ever a ruling about the CZ's where the thumb safety worked if you put it on when the hammer was back (as designed) but not if you applied the safety with the hammer fully down? 

[motosapiens]

11 hours ago, Prov1x said:

I've also shot the SSNationals 4 out of the last 5 years and have never had this happen there either. I have seen several holsters at that match farther forward than a limited holster and lower than should be allowed and yet nobody says anything. Of course it could be the shooter as to why. 

 

there is some confusion among many people as to just what is allowed. for example, not everyone knows that women get to run their SS holsters lower.

[Sarge]

7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

there is some confusion among many people as to just what is allowed. for example, not everyone knows that women get to run their SS holsters lower.

Gamers!! LOL

[JAFO]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Speaking of production equipment checks , was their ever a ruling about the CZ's where the thumb safety worked if you put it on when the hammer was back (as designed) but not if you applied the safety with the hammer fully down? 

 

I'm not familiar with the situation you're describing, but since the safety doesn't have to be on when the hammer is down, what would the ruling need to address?

[IHAVEGAS]

32 minutes ago, JAFO said:

 

I'm not familiar with the situation you're describing, but since the safety doesn't have to be on when the hammer is down, what would the ruling need to address?

 

Whether or not the safety is supposed to work under all conditions, as I recall one reason things get sticky is that the safety works in both hammer back and hammer forward positions on stock guns. When you read appendix D4 22.1 it sort of makes it obvious why there could be disparity of interpretation. 

[racerba]

41 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Whether or not the safety is supposed to work under all conditions, as I recall one reason things get sticky is that the safety works in both hammer back and hammer forward positions on stock guns. When you read appendix D4 22.1 it sort of makes it obvious why there could be disparity of interpretation. 

most guns, the safety doesn't work (engage) when the hammer is down.  If that's the the gun was designed, then it's good to go...

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Whether or not the safety is supposed to work under all conditions, as I recall one reason things get sticky is that the safety works in both hammer back and hammer forward positions on stock guns. When you read appendix D4 22.1 it sort of makes it obvious why there could be disparity of interpretation. 

 

Well, 22.1 pertains to modifying a gun so that a safety no longer operates.  If it never did operate that way, there would be no issue.  For example, my PCC safety doesn't engage if the hammer is down (say, on an unloaded start).  I think I shot a 1911 once that also would not engage if the hammer was down.