Pcc stock on belt start question

[Bwilmot]

This weekend at area6 an RO questioned whether the pcc start stock on belt can be supported or unsupported.   A few shooters have a kydex type cradle for the butt stock to set in at the start.  The RO says he believes it’s illegal to start with support.   The rifle has to be held unsupported.  Thoughts ?????????

 

 

also a question about the mbx fang. Is the bottom of the fang considered the butt stock  ? If it is it puts the rifle closer to the shoulder and should help speed up the pcc draw.  

[Flatland Shooter]

I've never seen one of these Kydex cradles.  What is the benefit?

 

I did come across a YouTube video of a left handed shooter in Florida that had his buttstock on the belt, his weak hand on the handguard and his strong hand flat against his leg (not touching the gun).  I don't know if that's just the way he wants to start or there was something in the WSB limiting where the strong hand needed to be.

 

Checked to see if a WSB could require a PCC start with only one hand on the gun.  Found nothing that indicated the MD cannot specify only one hand on the gun.  In the same area of the rules I did not see anything permitting or prohibiting a Kydex cradle for the buttstock.

[Silverscooby27]

Link to the cradle? I want one!

[ChuckS]

24 minutes ago, Bwilmot said:

This weekend at area6 an RO questioned whether the pcc start stock on belt can be supported or unsupported.   A few shooters have a kydex type cradle for the butt stock to set in at the start.  The RO says he believes it’s illegal to start with support.   The rifle has to be held unsupported.  Thoughts ?????????

 

 

also a question about the mbx fang. Is the bottom of the fang considered the butt stock  ? If it is it puts the rifle closer to the shoulder and should help speed up the pcc draw.  

Did you ask the RO to cite the rule?

 

If the WSB says buttstock touching belt, then the buttstock has to be touching the belt, not something on the belt. As for the fang thing, it looks like a good gamer answer to buttstock touching belt! In fact, I really see no reasonable way that a belt could be made to touch the main part of the stock to a belt with the fang installed. The fang also looks like a dandy device to get caught on shit as you move through a stage. Shirt pocket comes to mind also.  Prone could be interesting

[BlackBuzzard]

What if my belt was something kinda like this?

 

Stock on belt start would in effect already be shouldered while still touching belt.

 

990 × 1023I

Edited April 18, 2018 by BlackBuzzard

[jlo86cj]

20 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said:

I've never seen one of these Kydex cradles.  What is the benefit?

 

I did come across a YouTube video of a left handed shooter in Florida that had his buttstock on the belt, his weak hand on the handguard and his strong hand flat against his leg (not touching the gun).  I don't know if that's just the way he wants to start or there was something in the WSB limiting where the strong hand needed to be.

 

Checked to see if a WSB could require a PCC start with only one hand on the gun.  Found nothing that indicated the MD cannot specify only one hand on the gun.  In the same area of the rules I did not see anything permitting or prohibiting a Kydex cradle for the buttstock.

 It's pretty much the required PCC start position at any Manny Bragg match down here. Not bad once you practice it a little.

[Bwilmot]

 It's pretty much the required PCC start position at any Manny Bragg match down here. Not bad once you practice it a little.

That is the reason for the cradle. When your strong hand is relaxed at side it helps to have the rifle supported and stable.


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[jlo86cj]

That is the reason for the cradle. When your strong hand is relaxed at side it helps to have the rifle supported and stable.


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I have a small reference on my belt that supports it and still lets it touch the belt, so there has never been a question.

[GeneBray]

Interesting question. Current rules don’t address this. I agree with the post that said the PCC must be touching the belt not something on the belt. Wonder how long before NROI addresses this?


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[S&W627shooter]

Do the USPSA rules allow for a "port arms" start?

[MemphisMechanic]

58 minutes ago, S&W627shooter said:

Do the USPSA rules allow for a "port arms" start?

 

USPSA HQ heavily encourages things like ‘stock on belt’ over port arms. For one thing a technically correct military port arms is going to have your muzzle at 180.00...

 

For another,  it seems everyone has a different picture in their head regarding what this USPSA port arms is.

 

ACTUAL port arms:

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[S&W627shooter]

17 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

USPSA HQ heavily encourages things like ‘stock on belt’ over port arms. For one thing a technically correct military port arms is going to have your muzzle at 180.00...

 

For another,  it seems everyone has a different picture in their head regarding what this USPSA port arms is.

 

That makes sense!  thx

[Nathanb]

I’ve stRted dragging out a cone for my matches and using it in the WSB. Stock on belt. Muzzle pointed at cone 

[S&W627shooter]

16 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Did you ask the RO to cite the rule?

 

If the WSB says buttstock touching belt, then the buttstock has to be touching the belt, not something on the belt. As for the fang thing, it looks like a good gamer answer to buttstock touching belt! In fact, I really see no reasonable way that a belt could be made to touch the main part of the stock to a belt with the fang installed. The fang also looks like a dandy device to get caught on shit as you move through a stage. Shirt pocket comes to mind also.  Prone could be interesting

Is there an official answer to whether or not the Fang is considered part of the buttstock?  I was thinking of installing one.

[Nathanb]

If it’s not considered part of the stock what is it? 

 

IMO you’d absolutely have to consider it part of the stock and how id rule it. 

[MemphisMechanic]

4 hours ago, Nathanb said:

I’ve stRted dragging out a cone for my matches and using it in the WSB. Stock on belt. Muzzle pointed at cone 

 

I use something similar usually. Stock on belt. Muzzle contacting an X on the wall etc, etc.

[BartCarter]

You are going to see different start positions depending on the match director.  I have started low ready, stock on belt, hand on X, PCC on table, loaded, unloaded, etc.  You just need to be ready to go from any position they call for in a stage.  If there is a question, ask for clarification at the beginning of the stage.  With different match directors and different match locations you are not going to find everyone doing it one way.