Selling/Trading this for that....

[CHA-LEE]

Limited guns shooting 40 major ammo can and will break. My stable consists of 3 identical config 2011 Limited guns. They all get heavy use and all break or need rebuilt at some point during the season. 

 

I take a backup to every major match I attend. Luckily I have only had to switch to the backup a few times due to failures. Having a backup may seem excessive but it’s a huge benefit when it’s actually needed. Nobody wants to deal with gun problems, troubleshoot issues, or lose confidence in your blaster mid match. Putting the busted blaster away and picking up a backup you KNOW works properly eliminates a lot of distractions that can derail your match performance.

[RangerTrace]

On 12/17/2017 at 7:26 PM, rowdyb said:

Seriously thinking of selling my STI Eagle that is my back up for Limited to buy, or trade for, a 9mm single stack gun.

 

I'd have no back up, but I'd be able to shoot another division. Hmmm.... not sure. I have a nice Limited gun and I take time to keep it fresh and functioning. I am not classified in SS.

 

What's what you find more worthwhile? A back up gun or something for a new division???

I've gone to great lengths and expense in the past to have a back-up near duplicate limited gun.  One for practice/back-up, the other for matches.  The fact is, I don't and never have shot enough to justify the expense and I've never had a gun go down in a match.  So, I turned that gun into a badass LWRC suppressed SBR for work and home defense.  

[RangerTrace]

9 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Limited guns shooting 40 major ammo can and will break. My stable consists of 3 identical config 2011 Limited guns. They all get heavy use and all break or need rebuilt at some point during the season. 

 

I take a backup to every major match I attend. Luckily I have only had to switch to the backup a few times due to failures. Having a backup may seem excessive but it’s a huge benefit when it’s actually needed. Nobody wants to deal with gun problems, troubleshoot issues, or lose confidence in your blaster mid match. Putting the busted blaster away and picking up a backup you KNOW works properly eliminates a lot of distractions that can derail your match performance.

This is true, especially for high volume shooters.  So, I'd say it just depends on how much you shoot.  Or, if you have tons of money to spend, why not just have one for the heck of it.

[SWprotected]

I have 2 limited guns which are very close to being twins, I don't consider them primary and backup because I will use either with complete confidence. The gun I had built is a little more accurate so it is the one I tend to use for major matches but I would not hesitate to use the other gun. I shoot several major matches a year and with the expense involved and time off from work I would hate to have a gun break and not have a backup to allow me to finish a match. As some one mentioned you could probably borrow a gun as I could but would you have confidence in the gun you are borrowing? I have only had a gun issue at one match, and having a backup was a good thing.

[B_RAD]

14 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Limited guns shooting 40 major ammo can and will break. My stable consists of 3 identical config 2011 Limited guns. They all get heavy use and all break or need rebuilt at some point during the season. 

 

I take a backup to every major match I attend. Luckily I have only had to switch to the backup a few times due to failures. Having a backup may seem excessive but it’s a huge benefit when it’s actually needed. Nobody wants to deal with gun problems, troubleshoot issues, or lose confidence in your blaster mid match. Putting the busted blaster away and picking up a backup you KNOW works properly eliminates a lot of distractions that can derail your match performance.

Man, this sport is costly!  Ha ha. I want to get I to limited so bad but this has been what's kept me from it to this point. 

 

@CHA-LEE would you say having the go to back up kept you in the hunt for a top finish?  I guess it all depends on when it happens and how bad. 

 

[MikeBurgess]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:11 AM, rowdyb said:

I guess the only thing that keeps me from getting a 9mm SS gun is then I ask, how is this different (in the shooting) than what I was doing in Production? 

 

Shooting SS Minor VS shooting Production with your shadow.

There are no differences in stage planning and execution.

The only real differences are no DA first shot, my assumption is that's a non issue for you, and SS mags are harder to seat properly with a big mag well, also reasonably easy to make a non issue.

 

 

don't take that to mean you shouldn't have a SS minor gun, they are a ton of fun, and thats what this game is about for me.

 

[SCTaylor]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:11 PM, rowdyb said:

I guess the only thing that keeps me from getting a 9mm SS gun is then I ask, how is this different (in the shooting) than what I was doing in Production? Yeah I could probably double it up as an ESP gun as well but still.....

 

And NoKimberDave you'll be happy to know CZ is still my preferred thing.

 

 

Not much difference IMO. I shot SS Minor for just a bit and realized the finicky nature of 1911's and their magazines is too much for me. Shooting SS Minor and Production is just too similar to call it different IMO. SS Major, now that's a bit of a different story.

 

I keep thinking about a Patriot Defense milled & massaged Stock 1 for carry optics...

[CHA-LEE]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

Man, this sport is costly!  Ha ha. I want to get I to limited so bad but this has been what's kept me from it to this point. 

 

@CHA-LEE would you say having the go to back up kept you in the hunt for a top finish?  I guess it all depends on when it happens and how bad. 

 

 

Having a viable backup to switch to absolutely saved my bacon at several major matches over the years. Do Limited blasters cost a significant chunk of change? Absolutely. But I also spend a lot of money traveling to major matches. I don't want to flush $1000 - $1500 in travel expense down the drain because I am too cheap to have or bring a backup gun. I attend 12 - 15 major matches a year and spend a significant amount of money traveling to them. The cost of a backup gun isn't that significant when I compare it to the travel expenses that backup gun would protect. Its all about insuring your investment. 

 

If someone is primarily attending local matches with a sprinkle of majors here or there then a backup gun isn't really needed because your travel expense risk is minimal. I have 3 Limited guns and don't even bring a backup to local club matches. If my blaster fails in the middle of a club match then it is what it is. I am only out the club match fee and the gas to get there.

[KrymSIX]

I'm nowhere near the most experienced shooter in this thread, but from my perspective you already have the Eagle and you have said you travel to a decent number of majors it would make sense to just hang onto it. If your main goes down or has an issue you've got a gun that will let you do the re shoot and move on to the next stage. If its not immediately repairable you'll have a backup to complete the rest of the stages. 

[zzt]

rowdy, I can't help with the backup decision.  I have a backup for my Open gun.  I bought it because I wanted all the other stuff included in the deal.  I take it with me, but I've never had to use it.  I knew when I bought it that I would eventually sell it.  I have a backup for my SC RFPO gun because I own three 22 pistols.  I've never had to use that backup either.

 

If it were me making the decision, I'd sell the Edge and buy the gun you want.  It wouldn't be a 1911 9mm.  It would be a 1911 40sw.  Why?  It makes sense to me.  You only have to reload one caliber.  40 minor is softer shooting that 9mm minor at the same PF.  It gives you the option of shooting SS major, so your stage planning would not be the same as Production.  You COULD use it as a backup to your Limited gun in a real pinch, but that would entail bringing another belt/holster/pouches and mags.

[rowdyb]

Yep, right now my Eagle fits in the same holster as the Atlas with no mods at all they use the same mags and ammo. A total plug and play solution for a back up gun,

 

So I guess here in lies the question. I never needed a back up gun in Prod in a match, ever. And I travel to a ton of matches. When I leave the house it's with great confidence everything is right. I have the time and ability to keep my Prod pistol always in top shape.

 

So....., is there something inherently different about a 2011, major pf, Limited gun that makes the possibility of actually using a spare at a match truly considering? Does it matter what platform of gun it is if I'm always "on top of it" with my own checking and spare parts?

 

(Yes, I've been at matches where people in Prod went to back up guns and where people in Lim went to back up guns. Never me)

[KrymSIX]

I don't think it's that 2011s are inherently more susceptible to failure than a Production gun. Open pistols certainly withstand more high pressure use and imo really warrant having a backup if you're going to a lot of matches. Limited I think the risk level is about the same as Production for a failure. 

 

The biggest difference to my mind is that with a 2011 Limited gun any spare parts you have on hand will generally need to be fit amd tuned for your specific gun. Most production guns will just be able to plug and play with spare parts. I think therein is the biggest determining factor. If I was spending the money and taking the vacation time to go to Majors I'd really want to have a backup so I could avoid having to do rushed parts swaps -even of fitted amd tuned parts- at the safe table. It would take me out of the moment too much to go back and achieve my best (which is pretty modest at the moment personally, but we're using hypotheticals haha)

[B_RAD]

34 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Yep, right now my Eagle fits in the same holster as the Atlas with no mods at all they use the same mags and ammo. A total plug and play solution for a back up gun,

 

So I guess here in lies the question. I never needed a back up gun in Prod in a match, ever. And I travel to a ton of matches. When I leave the house it's with great confidence everything is right. I have the time and ability to keep my Prod pistol always in top shape.

 

So....., is there something inherently different about a 2011, major pf, Limited gun that makes the possibility of actually using a spare at a match truly considering? Does it matter what platform of gun it is if I'm always "on top of it" with my own checking and spare parts?

 

(Yes, I've been at matches where people in Prod went to back up guns and where people in Lim went to back up guns. Never me)

Unless you're lucky enough to have a small gun problem at the end of a stage, you're gonna end up zeroing the stage. Which means you'll have no shot for the win. So, sell me the Eagle. Ha ha. 

 

 

[CHA-LEE]

Rowdyb> It think you are isolating the use case of the backup gun too much. If your only use case for the backup gun is for Major match gun redundancy, then that is a pretty expensive investment that is hard to justify. If you broaden the use case for your backup gun to serve as a viable replacement at any time (Club Matches, Major Matches, Practice, etc) then it makes more sense. Minor failures that can be resolved with a simply part swap are really not a justification for a backup gun. Catastrophic failures like Cracked Slides, Shot Out Barrels, Accuracy Issues, Trigger problems, etc are what can cause significant down time for a blaster to get repaired. That down time for catastrophic repair IS what justifies the need for a backup gun. Its not uncommon for it to take a gunsmith weeks or months to resolve a catastrophic issue. Gunsmith time and real time are two different things which is a whole different discussion, but that down time needs to be accounted for.

 

I also want to point out that the more we shoot a particular gun the more we get tuned into how it shoots, feels, and functions. Having a backup gun that is a completely different configuration can and will be a significant distraction mid match when you switch over to it. We are playing a game where seconds, if not tenths of seconds, separate the winners from losers. We need to eliminate as many distracting variables as possible so we can always perform our best.

 

All three of my Limited guns are clones of one another. I can put all three on a table and shoot each one back to back and not be able to distinguish one from the other. They can all serve as my "Primary" at any given moment because of their identical function. I do designate one a "Practice Only" and another as the Primary and another as the Backup. Through each shooting season their assignment changes as needed while I am dealing with Minor or Catastrophic failures on any given one. There always seems to be at least one blaster that is either broken, been repaired and needs its function to be proven, or whatever else that takes it out of the match use roll temporarily. Having two other Limited guns to leverage during the down time of the third keeps me shooting with confidence through the whole season.

 

This game is hard enough as it is. There is no reason to make it even harder by injecting strange variables into the process. Equip yourself with the tools needed to produce a consistent performance given the level of participation you choose to engage in.      

[CHA-LEE]

Is the 2011 platform more or less prone to breaking than other platforms? I am not sure because I seem to be good at breaking anything I shoot. Listed below are the 2011 parts that I have broken or have failed while I have been using that platform. This list isn't all inclusive as I am compiling it from memory and the older I get the more I forget

 

Broken/Failed Upper Parts

Front Sights - Broken in half or start walking out of dove tail

Adjustable Rear Sights - Broken hinge, blade, windage and elevation screw

Barrel Bushings - Broke two Briley spherical bushings in half

Guide Rods - Tungsten guide rod came unscrewed and a Dawson Toolless guide rod failed in the locking lever area

Barrel Links -  Broken a couple of barrel links on barrels that were not fit properly

Barrels - Shoot enough and they get shot out and lose their accuracy

Cracked Slides - I have cracked 2 slides over the years in different locations

Aftec Extractor - I have worn out one and totally broke the hook off another due to a case head separation

 

Broken/Failed Lower Parts

Grip Screws - I have cracked several grip T nuts and totally lost the front screws/tube several times

Hammer Strut - Broke an EGW Titanium hammer strut in half

Sear/Hammer/Spring wear - Trigger jobs don't last forever and need to be freshened up a few times through the season

Slide to Frame Fit - Shoot enough and the slide to frame fit goes out the window causing accuracy issues

Worn Slide Stops - Slide stops wear and cause accuracy issues

Ambi Safety - I have broken off the right side ambi safety before

Grip Safety - Broke a grip safety in half

Grip Safety Pinning - Broke the pinning of the grip safety several times

Mag Catch - Worn out a couple of mag catches

Trigger Bow - Broke an SV trigger bow where the shoe separated from the bow.

Cracked Frame - I have cracked a couple of STI frames in the slide lock area

 

 

 

[SWprotected]

I don't think 2011's are more prone to failure than other platforms, but as competitive shooters we tend to modify and customize things. This modification process can lead us to push equipment to the edge to get the performance we want. I agree with CHA-LEE on viewing your Eagle as strictly as a backup for majors, then its not getting used and that is expensive. My first limited guns was an Edge and I wanted a backup gun, but it had to be something that served a purpose other than being a backup. I bought an Eagle in 40 so it could be used as a limited gun and made a very nice ESP gun for IDPA. I later had a Limited gun built and the Edge was modified to make them the same, and the Eagle very seldom gets used for USPSA but it is still my IDPA gun and if needed could be used for Limited without any modification.

I guess it depends on what you want. Do you need a backup?  Like you said I am very confident in my gear when I leave the house but I still like knowing I have a backup to me its worth the cost.

[rowdyb]

I can't make the decision to choose to afford another 3,700 Titan to have an exact copy for a back up gun. Yes, I realize that's the same cost as flying to 3-4 matches in the aggregate but I still can't. (relative versus opportunity cost thinking prevails) If having a $1,400 back up gun I don't use drives me crazy imagine having an almost 4k back up gun sitting around!

 

I tried to add value to this gun by making it a .40 minor ESP gun for IDPA but that didn't work. I think I'll just hold on to it for the year, maybe it will be my Steel Challenge Limited gun to feel like I'm getting more value out of it.

 

For now, I've decided to just let it sit, lurking in the back ground for the time it might ever be needed.

[GrumpyOne]

I have a co-worker that can flatten an anvil with a glass hammer, so a 2011 is not for him.

[mike4045]

I am not keeping a backup in 40 right now. I wish I did my main limited gun is down. I have been shooting a pair of 9mm 2011 while it is fixed. I hate shooting minor limited.