Yoder Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 My last match I performed a reload and my mag was empty but i had a round in the chamber. I didn't retain the magazine and received a procedural which I know is the rule. It made me wonder why is this is illegal? You aren't leaving rounds on the ground and it seems more tactically sound to have a round in the chamber then to go to slide lock. Is this just because or is there a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 supposed to be that you're not supposed to count rounds...if your gun is not at slide lock, you're not supposed to know if there are rounds in the mag or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Free Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Should be 100% Legal to my knowledge, just as long as there is not any rounds in the magazine. I have done it many of times at our matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 At one time people could have probably given you a 'tactical reason' for why it is a rule, but the original thinking for rules and the revisions and ideas over the years and various rule books makes this impossible unless you directly ask someone like Wilson or Hackathorn or other who were there. I think you're better off not trying to find a the reason why but to just know the rules and play within them. And T-free is getting away with breaking the rules at his club due to their ignorance of the rules, it's very clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoder Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 1 minute ago, rowdyb said: At one time people could have probably given you a 'tactical reason' for why it is a rule, but the original thinking for rules and the revisions and ideas over the years and various rule books makes this impossible unless you directly ask someone like Wilson or Hackathorn or other who were there. I think you're better off not trying to find a the reason why but to just know the rules and play within them. And T-free is getting away with breaking the rules at his club due to their ignorance of the rules, it's very clear. I agree. I was just curious. I think the previous post about round counting makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Yeah, I'm sure originally there was some sort of situational awareness thing and/or I've heard it said there was a study popular at the time that said in defense shootings both civilians and police shoot the gun to empty more times than not, normally without conscious thought of having done so. Either way, we get slide lock reloads or reloads with retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Free Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Good Info rowdyb, I will let the guys know at our next match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, T-Free said: Good Info rowdyb, I will let the guys know at our next match. And have your club CSO recert' while he's at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 It's simply a stupid rule.A rule meant to make up for people who can't or don't want to count.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, IronArcher said: It's simply a stupid rule. A rule meant to make up for people who can't or don't want to count. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro That's simply not true. Because of this rule, I'm forced to count my rounds and plan my reloads accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Unintended consequence of a poorly thought out rule.Ends up having the opposite effect than what was intended. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 If you're on the street fighting for your life and your gun has a mag safety then you have a paper weight! Or it's just to keep IDPA different from USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 9/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, IronArcher said: Unintended consequence of a poorly thought out rule. Ends up having the opposite effect than what was intended. The intention was to keep the USPSA speed reload out of IDPA, and make you shoot the gun dry like you will in da streetz. It worked exactly as intended. ...sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 LOL!Because in da streetz, you want your gun to be completely useless while you reload [emoji23]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 The intention was to keep the USPSA speed reload out of IDPA, and make you shoot the gun dry like you will in da streetz. It worked exactly as intended. ...sort of.Save for the fact that I would never intentionally run dry if I had extra mags on my belt Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwilmot Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Because of the rule I sometime take a third shot on a target to reload where I want to not where the stage designer wants me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) I think it's more gun fighting practical to reload an empty mag with one in the chamber rather than fire that last round and then have to slide lock reload. I understand the speed load not being real world (kinda) in the sense that most folks carry no spare ammo and when they do, they carry only one extra mag. So, using all the ammo and not leaving 4 rounds behind in a discarded mag does make some practical sense. At least to me. Now, saying that,.... IDPA talks out both sides of their mouths when it comes to rules that have foundation in the realm practical self defense. You would never see the founders of IDPA who teach classes on self defense still to this day, teach or advise to take shots on hostage takers. How many scenarios do you see at IDPA matches like this? A lot. So,... That's dumb! Think about this, If the shooter stows an empty mag but has a round in the chamber, there is no PE! How stupid is that! How real world is that? Wasting time to stow an empty mag, when you should be going for a fully loaded mag! Don't get me started on shoot me first vest! Or why you can't go bullets out! Why? You're wearing a shoot me first vest! Saying all that, I belive that IDPA does it to be different than USPSA. Which makes some sense because if it's not different then why have it. If folks want to shoot IDPA they just need to follow the rules and not try to understand them. Just have fun. It is fun to shoot. Edited October 28, 2017 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 On 10/28/2017 at 5:49 AM, Bwilmot said: Because of the rule I sometime take a third shot on a target to reload where I want to not where the stage designer wants me to. Unlimited means shoot as much as you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 because it is what USPSA shooters do,,, and IDPA is all about, "Lets do something different, even if it makes no sense." Probably why most serious shooters dont take IDPA too serious... Suggestion book is a joke. Just get some trigger time, and put up with whatever local rules Tactical Tim has made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 On 11/3/2017 at 4:33 PM, Joe4d said: because it is what USPSA shooters do,,, and IDPA is all about, "Lets do something different, even if it makes no sense." Probably why most serious shooters dont take IDPA too serious... Suggestion book is a joke. Just get some trigger time, and put up with whatever local rules Tactical Tim has made up. Yet now we have a -0/-1 zones in the head like the A/B zones....GASP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 11/12/2017 at 10:57 AM, Craig N said: Yet now we have a -0/-1 zones in the head like the A/B zones....GASP!!! ...that match no known anatomy markers, unlike the USPSA head zones. "Lets do something different, even if it makes no sense." You've got to wonder if it started out like an actual eyebox, and then someone said "That's too much like USPSA!" and someone else said "And that's a really small down zero box, it'll be hard to hit, we need to make it bigger, so let's just make it a circle centered in the head that still takes up most of the headbox area." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 7 hours ago, Thomas H said: ...that match no known anatomy markers, unlike the USPSA head zones. "Lets do something different, even if it makes no sense." You've got to wonder if it started out like an actual eyebox, and then someone said "That's too much like USPSA!" and someone else said "And that's a really small down zero box, it'll be hard to hit, we need to make it bigger, so let's just make it a circle centered in the head that still takes up most of the headbox area." Yeah and they should have just left it alone. Seems it's just "f*#king with it to f*#k with it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Craig N said: Yeah and they should have just left it alone. Seems it's just "f*#king with it to f*#k with it". It really looks like it, doesn't it? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 maybe idpa has stock in hole saw bits and needed every club to buy one to diy the new head perfs in their stock of old targets. perfect conspiracy. and yeah, it sure sucks to get a -1 for a head shot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 On 9/11/2017 at 3:49 PM, rowdyb said: I think you're better off not trying to find a the reason why but to just know the rules and play within them. +10,000 When you know the "reasons" they will often seem nuttier than squirrel shit and that will bother you a lot more than not knowing. Think of it as a game like monopoly with arbitrary rules like "do not pass go & do not collect $200" & just play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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