Major Match On Wheels

[EricW]

One of the topics of discussion that came up at Area 1, is that locations that would otherwise make fantastic sites for Nationals or just major matches, currently aren't in the running because they don't have the equipment to do so. The suggestion was brought up that USPSA fill a tractor-trailer or two with the necessary equipment to build a match. Then it would be a matter of driving it to the location, unloading, and setting it up.

It wouldn't be terribly expensive either. It just doesn't cost that much to hire a truck to move things these days.

I know the usual suspects are going to be unhappy about USPSA spending membership dollars on such frivolous adventures, but I and others see this as a world of opportunities. If done well, it could substantially increase the number of major matches to attend and could also be a fantastic revenue source for USPSA (by leasing the equipment to matches).

And I can already hear the "fiasco on wheels" arguments, but let me tell ya, we have people in USPSA who know how to get stuff done. If we could distill the brains and initiative that it took to put on Area 1 and build a system to take that show on the road, I could see a lot of good stuff happening.

What do y'all think?

[sturmruger]

I have worked at several other types of competitions, and there are separate companies who will bring all the necessary equipment for whatever event is going on. The two I have been to were inline racing, and a gymnastics meet.

I don't see why something like that wouldn't work out. I think the USPSA could make some money on the side. I am sure people who make steel targets, or target stands would love to be the official USPSA steel provider. I don't know if there is a lot of money left over after running a big match. Could they afford to pay a couple grand for leased equipment?

[mactiger]

I like the idea, although it isn't the first time I've heard it. Several of us who have been involved with Nationals for years have often talked about a "road show" for Nationals, complete with travelling setup crew (volunteer). This would supply a lot of props and materials to ranges with lots of space but limited props. It's an interesting proposition; not without inherent problems, but I think the logistics could be worked out.

I also spoke this year with the folks in Missoula, who are interested in holding a Nationals (and I think it would be a dynamite location), but they were a bit concerned about prop inventory for a match that size. A trailer full of stuff would go a long way towards making a match happen there, as well as other places.

Thanks for bringing this up, Eric. It's a good idea, and deserves discussion.

Troy

[mactiger]

A followup comment: we've also discussed the idea of a match production crew: a complete set of props, people, tools, and equipment to deliver a match "on order". I think this could work as well, but a USPSA trailer would be a good start.

Troy

[John Heiter]

...and we could talk to the Discovery Channel about making a reality show out of it ala Garage Takeover, American Choppers, etc. to take care of the sponsorship money. Excellent.

[Flexmoney]

You guys must have seen me zipping around Ohio with my old green trailer in tow...grabbing whatever I needed for the Ohio match.

[Little Bill]

I am pretty sure that Area 3 has something like that right now. I have not seen it, but I have been told that it will be at Mill Creek for set-up this week. I think I was told that Arnie C. funded the purchase through Area 3 matches (or something to that effect). I will let you know if I see it in person this week.

[wide45]

Not a new idea, or a bad one.

The question comes down to the length of the list of facilities that are waiting for such a service.

So far we have one possiblity (Missoula?)

We'd need a lot more to make it worth doing.

Around here clubs pool props and workers to put on bigger matches.

[rtr]

I'm a USPSA member, yet I've never shot an area or national level match, the primary reason is that the closest one to me (either this years Area 1 or Area 2 in Rio) is about a 20 hour drive one way, not really something I want to do (I know call me lazy).

If a range that is closer to me could host a larger match with this trailer that would be very nice. I know I have no interest in shooting in Barry, IL in the summer, or even ever really, so if this would allow USPSA to move nationals to other locations in the country, it would be a very good idea.

[EricW]

So far we have one possiblity (Missoula?)

We'd need a lot more to make it worth doing.

Around here clubs pool props and workers to put on bigger matches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Acutally, Missoula is not the issue.

The problem becomes, as I understand it, when other clubs won't share. I won't go into specifics, but there are places which would be great venues for major matches, that cannot because their neighboring clubs *refuse* to share or help. The trailer(s) would fix that. The trailer would also help increase the number of matches to attend. It need not be restricted merely to area matches.

The biggest pitfall that I could see with the trailer is that it could become like the mundane, travelling carnival: the same tired old rides everywhere, every year.

[BDH]

The problem becomes, as I understand it, when other clubs won't share.  I won't go into specifics, but there are places which would be great venues for major matches, that cannot because their neighboring clubs *refuse* to share or help. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that is truly unfortunate, selfish, and very disappointing....

[EricW]

BDH,

Yes, it's disappointing, but it also opens the door to opportunity. It's all in what we want to do with it. It appears that the overwhelming majority thinks it's a good idea.

Hopefully it will become an agenda item to discuss at the next BOD meeting.

[Sestock]

It takes a lot of stuff to put on a major match right. A trailer full of props would be a start to hold a major match. Local clubs would still have to provide a lot of material in order to put on a major match. We are still tearing down from the Area 8 match. EH has a very extensive inventory of props and match material. We probably used two and a half plus trailers of props for the match last weekend. We have two full size trailers for storage, plus two small buildings and probaly enough other stuff outside to fill one or two more trailers.

[Sterling White]

Eric,

I like the idea. Next come the questions:

1) Inventory: how much should be made for the initial investment, who gets to make the inventory list, what items will make up the inventory, and how will the procurement of items be handled?

2) Wheels: would an enclosed 30+ foot trailer suffice or are we talking 18 wheeler trailer?

3) How will transportation be arranged and who will pay the transportation bill? There's about 2050 miles between Missoula and East Huntington.

4) Maintenance?

5) Product replacement?

Any ideas?

[shred]

The biggest pitfall that I could see with the trailer is that it could become like the mundane, travelling carnival: the same tired old rides everywhere, every year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Especially with the same travelling setup and operations crew.. that could be a problem.

[XRe]

One would expect it to be stocked with an assortment of the common props - namely, steel targets of various sorts, turners, swingers. Boxes, perhaps some wall panels. Target stands a plenty.

Cost to rent the trailer should include adequate budget for equipment replacement and maintenance, transportation/fuel costs, etc - the match should be accounting for that fee into the match budget.

I would think it would be better to target a 30' goose neck or something - far easier to move around than an 18 wheeler.

I think you're going to find it hard to get a consistent volunteer or three to ride around with the thing to all of the matches that might want to use it. I'd expect it would either be a "come and pick the trailer up" thing, or you'd have to have a paid person to take it around "on tour".

If it were done as a "rolling prop supply" instead of as a "rolling stage production", it would be up to the match designers as to how creative or repetitive it would get. Stocking specialty targets arrangements takes up a lot of space in the trailer, and might not be the best choice - so stocking a *bunch* of the widely used stuff might make it more useful, and more versatile....

For whatever that's worth, anyhow

[kimel]

I think this is going to have to be a 50 foot big rig trailer. A 30 foot gooseneck just won't be big enough and definately won't handle the weight of all the steel targets.

Moving it is the easy part. There are a ton of contract haulers out there just looking for a load. They take care of putting it in the right place at the right time. No one has to take time off from work to go get the trailer. It just arrives.

Many large college sports teams have one of these trailers all painted up with logos and whatnot and various trucking companies actually bid on who gets to haul it around the country every season.

Another problem with a 30 foot gooseneck is then either USPSA has to buy a big pickup to tow it or hope that some poor schmuck is willing to drag it from match to match. A gooseneck implies a 5th wheel hitch and now you just cut the number of available pickups down considerably.

Logistics could be interesting too. Last week we had two Area matches going at the same time. This isn't the only weekend this year that this happens. Who get's the trailer in this case? Biggest match? Closest match to the trailer according to the schedule? Match with the most GM's?

What we probably need, ultimately is a fleet of trailers all similarly equipped that are dedicated to a region. One stays west-coast, one mid-west, one east-coast...or something like that.

I worry that one trailer will cause so many logistical problems that it is found to be a failure yet I seriously doubt anyone will put enough bucks into this idea to make it viable. I hope I get proven wrong...I really do.

USPSA has a "national HQ fund" (or something like that). I would think that this sort of effort would be far more valuable to the sport than a shiny office building.

[George]

I work in the temporary staging industry and there are very established ways to do this type of thing there. There are several working examples out there and they still don't "always" fill the bill for everything they are asked to do. Nor can they be maintained on a shoestring budget if they are used hard.

Grip trucks are a standard in the video/film industry and there are quite a few sucessful operations in business today all over the country. A grip truck is basically a lighting/rigging warehouse and a scenic fabrication shop on wheels. A grip truck handles about 70% of events it gets contracted for without "much" accessorizing, but when it comes right down to it you almost always outfit specifically for the event in a lot of cases and you really do need a shop to run back to a whole lot of the time ;-)

Video production and satelite trucks/trailers are a similar, but different set of problems ;-) They usually have enough features to handle most productions, but, they always need something extra, or fixed/replaced. Whenever a Northwest Mobile TV truck, or a PSSI Sattelite truck pulls into 3Com, or the Oakland Coliseum for a sports run, we stand a fairly good chance of getting calls for additional/replacement gack to be rented (ching ching!).

All of these systems go back to the shop for re-fitting either after each gig, or they have an attached maintenance engineer who basically lives with the truck no matter where it is, until it gets a chance to get a maintenance stand.

It was realized a long, long time ago in our industry that there is "no such thing" as "one size fits all". Second thing learned by hard experience in this industry was that if you don't have way too much of the all the right stuff with you, you had better stay home. Massive overkill is the rule, not just the occasional practice. Almost every single thing I take on tour/location has a backup. Not just one extra for a dozen of them, but a running backup in place everywhere in some circumstances. The extrapolation here is you better always have twice what you need if you expect to stand alone, otherwise you "WILL" always need local ground support and supplementation.

Just some thoughts from a working road dawg who has seen and tried a lot of things and learned a lot of things the hard way.

BTW, I voted that it's a good idea. It can be implemented, but I caution that it can go to shjt real easy/fast if you don't keep it in good managment hands at all times.

Systems are only as good as the folks that keep them up and running. My motto in this biz is that the gear is not what makes the difference, but the crew. It always comes down to people in the end. If I were a show/event producer, I would rather have a somewhat ragtag system with a world class crew behind it than a brand spankin' new fangled system with a bunch of losers at the helm ;-)

Put your money into the people first and the clients will always follow. The gear is always a fickle feast on it's own and the temptation is to buy lots of shiny new toys whenever possible and expect them to stand on their own without a very well thought out support system.

BTW, it would probably be week long job at minimum to properly cost and tweak a workable proposal on this that wasn't just a big fat guesstimate. The numbers are out there, but it's a lot of legwork to get them right.

--

Regards,

Edited June 29, 2005 by George

[EricW]

gmw,

You want details...from....ME?! Dude, I'm just the pie in the sky idea guy. I just steal ideas from others, float them out there as my own, then throw a temper tantrum when things don't go exactly as I envisioned (without ever really sharing my vision).

Seriously, I'm clueless about the details. Initially, I think all the trailer could be is a rolling box of props that clubs lease from USPSA.

For the initial investment, there's tons of ways to creatively finance the solution. It's really not that big of a deal. If people can lease back Lear Jets, we can figure out a way to finance a trailer full of steel.

There is no way anything less than an 18 wheeler will hold everything. Honestly, I think it will eventually evolve into multiple trailers, including a trailer (maybe 5th wheel) dedicated to stats and match administration.

Maintenance gets contracted out to a welding/fab shop at the home base for the trailers, probably Sedro. Another possibility, probably better, would be to have the major steel target companies bid for the project. The trailer stays at their facility and part of the contract includes maintenance. The target contract would get put up for re-bid periodically.

Part of the deal when a match rents the trailer is that they pay a deposit on the equipment. They get the moolah back when the equipment is inspected and repaired to new condition.

Hauling costs really aren't all that bad, I don't think. It would probably be a couple grand each way from coast to coast. There may be good financial reasons to locate the trailer someplace more central like TX. Match directors may balk at the costs initially, but if it gets done right, the quality and variety of props that the truck will bring will surely be an added draw for shooters. USPSA has *good stuff* to bring to the table. Gotta keep that positive 'tude going and get people to want to pay for it.

Anyway, it's just an idea (and definitely not mine, I just decided to post it). The devil is always in the details.

[kevin c]

This is slightly off topic, but out our way the clubs share props for the sectionals that we have taken turns hosting, as well as charity matches and the like. The main sticking point for us is manpower - what with some of the clubs being fairly small, and just about all clubs relying on a small cadre of workaholic contributors at risk of burnout, getting enough bodies to run a major match is difficult.

I'd think that one reason a club may have lots of space but not the materiel for a big match is its size - perhaps not enough regular members to justify the expense. If so, would they be big enough to staff a match even if props were provided? And if these venues haven't ever hosted a major match, will there be enough local talent to organize and run a major event? Perhaps I am misinterpreting what might be provided here. Are we talking about just equipment, or expertise, management, even manpower?

Don't get me wrong, I think offering support to expand into new venues for matches is a great idea, and providing props, hardware, computers, etc. sounds like an excellent way of doing it. I'm just wondering if more might not be needed to really make a new match site successful.

[vluc]

Instead of one for the whole country, why not one for each area? Sponsors could be found to help decorate the side of the truck as it travels, defray some cost.

Local clubs would have to pony up some materials, can't totally rely on the truck itself. Inventory what is out there, get a general condition report, and see where it goes from there....

IIRC, one of the match directors from another local club brought their texas star to A8 just in case. That is the type of cooperation you need.

[dminor]

Area 3 does indeed have a trailer. It is stocked with more common things like clipboards, range buckets, water coolers, shade shelters, radios, left over target from last year, etc. etc. The long term goal was to include steel and walls. Most cubs in Area 3 just did not have anything so Arnie made a start purchasing the trailer and basic suppies. We also purchased new timers after last year's match so the rage officers did not have to use their own. I hope Manny continues with making some profit off the Area match and continues to stock the trailer and that clubs will step up to the plate and hold larger matches.

I also believe USPSA should have a trailer. As of now they rent space at Smith & Wesson hall at PASA Park and things like timers and radios are shipped to other matches.

[bgary]

Not a new idea, or a bad one.

The question comes down to the length of the list of facilities that are waiting for such a service.

I'd take the idea a step further (I've offered this idea at a number of Board meetings, but have yet to achieve "critical mass" to take it forward)

I think we should have both a trailer *and* a "grant program".

USPSA would loan a club [some amount of money] interest free, for five years. The money *must* be used for range improvements, with particular focus on making those range improvements that would make the range suitable for hosting major matches.

During the five years, the club would put in a bid for a major match (ideally a Nationals, but an Area or other tournament could be accepted). If it was a nationals, USPSA would "actively support" it by bringing in "the trailer", the Nationals RO cadre, and all the other bits of infrastructure needed to help it succeed. At the end of that match, the loan would be "forgiven" by applying it against the range-use fee (if any). If the club does *not* host a major match within the five years, a repayment plan would be put in place.

Doing this would have a number of interesting effects: It would increase the "inventory" of ranges that are capable of hosting a Nationals, it would expose clubs all over the country to the processes involved in putting a major match on the ground, it would allow clubs to host their first major match with minimal initial outlay on their part (eg, they don't have to buy a bunch of steel out of pocket before they can host their first major match)... and, except for the capital outlay for the trailer and the operating expenses of getting it to places, it would be largely "revenue neutral" from USPSA's perspective (eg, from USPSA's perspective, the grant money either gets paid back, or gets absorbed by the normal cost of putting a nationals on the ground).

Thoughts?

Bruce

[bgary]

I also believe USPSA should have a trailer. As of now they rent space at Smith & Wesson hall at PASA Park and things like timers and radios are shipped to other matches.

Notably, USPSA actually pays PASA park a non-trivial amount of money to store USPSA-owned equipment. The cost of purchasing a trailer and storing the stuff "somewhere else" could be at least partially offset by *not* having to pay PASA to store the stuff for us.

Bruce

[bgary]

The problem becomes, as I understand it, when other clubs won't share. I won't go into specifics, but there are places which would be great venues for major matches, that cannot because their neighboring clubs *refuse* to share or help.

Yup. Very true.

And - I won't go into specifics - but that problem has been around for a while, and was a topic of conversation as recently as last Friday, when a really great [possible] venue for the 2006 Area-1 match fell off the agenda because of neighboring clubs not being willing to step up and help.

One approach that my home section has tried, with some success, is to have an incentive program.

The 2001 Area-1 match, for example was hosted by the Northwest Section, a group of 6 or 7 clubs. Each club "bid" for one or more of the 12 stages - if they got a stage, that meant that the club was responsible for designing it, bringing the props and steel for it, setting it up, staffing it, and tearing it down. In return for that effort, they got 1/12th of the match profit for their club. If they did two stages, they got twice as much money for their club.

That worked pretty well.... and may be a way of enticing "neighboring clubs" to pitch in for bigger matches in other areas.

Bruce