Lots Of Lead Buildup! How?

[TLD]

The loads are 4.4 grain TG 200 g Lead flat point bullets. about 400 rounds fired in practice and steel plates from Kimber Stainless II. The lead is almost bonded to the barrel. It was from breach to muzzle. I have most of it out, but it's taken hours and hours. I never had trouble with these bullets before but never fired so many rounds without cleaning.

If it wasn't some sort of lead problem, could this have caused it?

1 Using RCBS 3 die set on Redding Turret.

2 Seat and crimp in same stage.

3 Even with beveling inside casemouth, slight bullet shaving when seating

4 small ring of lead left just above and inside of mouth of case

5 This ring can be peeled off if a knife is used to get at it.

6 It looks like a thin thread wrapped around bullet at case mouth.

Might this righ be more prone to come off and get smeared down the entire lenght of the barrel? I'm getting a crip die anyway, or seat and crimp separately with my die.

If not that, what?

I NEVER want to go through this again.

[Scooter]

Change to a different bullet. I haven't had any problems with Laser-Cast.

One toxic method of getting rid of lead is to mix vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, 50/50. Pour it in the barrel and let it sit for no more than 15 minutes. Most of the lead will be dissolved in the solution.

[DougCarden]

try different bullets, 4.7 TG makes major in my .45, with no appreciable leading at all...........

[calhunter]

The barrel on my 1911 Smith got leaded up pretty bad. I tried the Outers Foul Out III and it had the barrel looking like new in about 30 min. I questioned it when I bought it but the thing really works provided you follow the instructions.

[stingerjg]

Shoot plated bullets?!?

[Jasonub]

after shooting lead, shoot 3to 5 rounds of plated or teflon coated bullets. Viola no more leading

[Wim]

Just make sure if you shoot plated or jackets after lead that they aren't maxed loads as the lead fouling will likely increase the pressure.

I have used an ADCO EZ-Brite cloth before with pretty good results, but I was leery to do so regularly because I figured that it must be abrasive, although it is one of the recommended uses.

(http://www.adcosales.com/ezbrite.html)

Does anyone have an opinion on those?

I've also used Iosso bore cleaner

(http://www.iosso.com/metal.htm)

Which Sinclair recommends for removing carbon build up in rifles, so I figure it's pretty safe - but is surely mildly abrasive too?

Thanks for any input on those.

Wim

[Harmon]

sounds like the bullets are slightly undersize.

you want to see hideous, a friend gave me some of his own 45 bullets that were mistakenly sized .450" loaded 10 of them to try out.

shooting plate rack, the first three went fine..ping, ping ping...the fourth one missed..

i wasnt shooting for time or speed or anything, i was really just shooting to be shooting...i knew i was dead on that steel, the bullet missed the target...not me

i unloaded the gun and looked down the tube, there was no visible rifling.. the lead was terrible after 4 rounds..

that was with bullets .002 undersize, i imagine .001 would be bad, but not as bad.

with leading, once it starts, its keeps spreading down the bore.

[pisgahrifle]

Get you a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's. After a few passes with a brass patch, run a 50/50 Kroil-Hoppes mix, soak, pass another brass patch, and finish with JB Bore Bright. Run you one more Kroil-soaked patch to get the last of the compound out and it'll scare you how clean that bore'll be. Either that or find you a shad of mercury, drop it in, plug up both ends and shake it around. A lot of old timers used to do that though I wouldn't heartily recommend it

[bufit323]

Change to a different bullet.  I haven't had any problems with Laser-Cast. 

One toxic method of getting rid of lead is to mix vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, 50/50.  Pour it in the barrel and let it sit for no more than 15 minutes.  Most of the lead will be dissolved in the solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can affirm both that this method works and that it is toxic. Even used in very short periods, I managed to make many small pits in one of my gun bbl.

I was warned of this possibility ahead of time, rolled the dice and lost, my own fault, just wanted to make sure that you have the same info. I am often tempted to use this combo again when leading gets stubbirn, but then I fight back the urge thinking about that pitted bbl.

[BSeevers]

Second on the Lewis Lead Remover. Works.

Or don't shoot lead

[Jasonub]

Just make sure if you shoot plated or jackets after lead that they aren't maxed loads as the lead fouling will likely increase the pressure.

amen. i plan to shoot 3 grains N320 on a 200 grain plated head to clean the barrel.

thanks for the tip

[Bronson7]

Change to a different bullet.  I haven't had any problems with Laser-Cast. 

One toxic method of getting rid of lead is to mix vinegar and hydrogen peroxide, 50/50.  Pour it in the barrel and let it sit for no more than 15 minutes.  Most of the lead will be dissolved in the solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That works fine on stainless barrels but risky on standard steel barrels (pitting).

If you're shaving lead during crimping, you need to increase your bell some.

Bronson7

[cking]

JB and Kroil works great.

[revchuck]

2 Seat and crimp in same stage.

3 Even with beveling inside casemouth, slight bullet shaving when seating

4 small ring of lead left just above and inside of mouth of case

5 This ring can be peeled off if a knife is used to get at it.

6 It looks like a thin thread wrapped around bullet at case mouth.

Sounds like part of the problem (at least) is here.

First, make sure you seat and crimp in separate operations. When you crimp, don't go smaller than .470" at the case mouth. (If you don't have anything to measure with, you now know your next reloading equipment purchase. ) You might want to try expanding your case neck a little more too.

Second, make sure your bullets are at least .451" diameter. .452 works better in my guns, but may not in yours.

Third, consider changing bullets. 4.4 grains of TG is a light load, and may work better with a swaged bullet than with a hard cast. I use 4.8 grains of TG with a 230 grain RNL with no problems. (It's a factory duplication load.)

Edited May 27, 2005 by revchuck

[Sac Law Man]

The best solution I have found is to clean the barrel as soon as you are done shooting. The barrel will still be warm and the lead inside will still be soft. Only takes a few minutes to clean the barrel this way.

[AustinMike]

I tried some Laser-Cast 230gr RN in my Kimber for the first time and got some nasty leading with 50 shots. In addition to the barrel getting leaded (mainly at the first inch or so of the rifling), I had some lead stuck to the breech face in a semi-circle outline of the case rim. My standard load has been 4.0gr Clays under 230gr Rainier RN. I cleaned all the lead out and tried again with 3.8gr Clays. This looked a lot better, with no real leading to speak of (just some lube gunk.) I fired some of the plated bullets to clear out what little was left behind.

I don't know for sure if it was the reduced load that cleaned things up. Another theory that went through my head is that maybe there was some copper build up that contributed to the excessive leading initially and maybe I got it all out with the extra scrubbing to get the lead out.

I've always shot plated bullets in the Kimber, but was looking for something less expensive. Based on the dirtiness and the smoke, I didn't care for the lead experience. I'm probably going to try some of the Precision black bullets since those are cheaper than the Rainier bullets I usually use. If those make a mess, I'll just stick with what works and pay the extra coin.

[Sac Law Man]

If you use fast powders like N310 or Clays expect fouling in the barrel regardless of what type of bullet you use. Switching to a slower burning powder will help....

When I switched to plated bullets, using the same powder (I had to add 2 grains to get same FPS) the barrel is just as difficult to clean as when I use lead bullets.

[ParaJoe]

I shoot 200 LSWC's with 4.6grs of TG and they make major. I built an electrochemical bore cleaner from parts sourced from Wally World and Home Depot and it works great. I clean my pistol after everytime I shoot it and this keeps the leading down. I have tried several types of powders and different bullet manufacturers but I'm beginning to think if you shoot lead be prepared to clean up after it. But it's cheap and shooting 1,500 rounds a month I'm not spending the cash for jacketed.

Parajoe

[JFD]

The bullets are likely undersized, as has already been mentioned. I would especially think this is the case if you've been shooting lead without this mess in the past.

I've found that "chore boy" wrapped around an old bore brush works as well as the Lewis Lead Remover. It's also less of a pain to use.

[Harmon]

the peroxide/vinegar method works great on stainless barrels.

harmon.

[Jack Suber]

The loads are 4.4 grain TG 200 g Lead flat point bullets. about 400 rounds fired in practice and steel plates from Kimber Stainless II. The lead is almost bonded to the barrel. It was from breach to muzzle. I have most of it out, but it's taken hours and hours. I never had trouble with these bullets before but never fired so many rounds without cleaning.

If it wasn't some sort of lead problem, could this have caused it?

1 Using RCBS 3 die set on Redding Turret.

2 Seat and crimp in same stage.

3 Even with beveling inside casemouth, slight bullet shaving when seating

4 small ring of lead left just above and inside of mouth of case

5 This ring can be peeled off if a knife is used to get at it.

6 It looks like a thin thread wrapped around bullet at case mouth.

Might this righ be more prone to come off and get smeared down the entire lenght of the barrel? I'm getting a crip die anyway, or seat and crimp separately with my die.

If not that, what?

I NEVER want to go through this again.

I think Titegroup is too fast for "normal" lead bullets. Using a bullet with anything less than about a 6/2 alloy and the burn starts melting the lead - which is generally the case for leading all the way down the barrel. Leading primarily at the throat is indicative of too hard of a bullet and to "slow" of a burn. Leading beyond the throat is indicative of too hot a load or too soft of a bullet (in most cases - both). If you want to continue to use lead and TG, then you might want to consider a bullet like Laser Cast. Its not just a velocity thing. For example, my hunting bullet that I use with my 44 redhawk is a 240 grn (Lightning Bullets ) LSWC. I am pushing that bullet at 1550 fps and I experience very little smoke or leading. Of course it is a VERY hard bullet. If I drop the velocity below 1300 with my current powder, then it is lead-city in the barrel.

As for removing lead - the easiest (and cleanest) method that I have found is to get 00 brass or bronze wool and wrap it around a brass or bronze barrel brush and run it down the barrel (no solvents). This will strip the lead out in slivers. Since you are using brass or bronze, these metals won't harm the barrel. This is a trick Bill Wilson recommends in one of his books.

[10mmdave]

The barrel on my 1911 Smith got leaded up pretty bad. I tried the Outers Foul Out III and it had the barrel looking like new in about 30 min. I questioned it when I bought it but the thing really works provided you follow the instructions.

I gotta go with calhunter on this one, if you shoot a lot of lead bullets the Foul-Out is the best

thing going (imho)

Take the barrel out of the gun, plug the chamber end, stand the barrel up straight some how

(sml vice, spring clamp, etc.) setup the unit, solution in the bore and turn it on.

For the lead your talking about in a couple hours you won't believe how soft it's gotten,

most of the lead will come out by brushing now.

I have a small plastic container that I put my comp in, I submerge it in the solution to

cover the ports and then turn it on to clean out my comp ports.

Works for copper too, with the proper solution.

You probably shoot lead bullets to save money, do you buy whatever's cheapest ??

You run the risk of a slightly undersized bullet or a little bit different lead mixture even if

you buy from the same guy all the time so you never really know what your shooting.

Anyway's, the Foul Out isn't that expensive, it's non-toxic, won't hurt your barrel, and it can

be used on all most any gun you have.

[Joe D]

The peroxide/vinegar does work really well for stainless barrels. IT WILL ETCH CARBON STEEL BARRELS.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Joe D

[bgl42]

Ditto on the vinegar/peroxide mix... I ruined an SA barrel this way many years ago.

I run 3.8 Clays and 200 LSW with no problems. On my revolvers, I always finish with a cylinder of JHP's. Cleans the lead right out...