9 Major with 115 GR and 3N38

[Jmo2011]

What's the max amount of 3n38 anyone has been able to get in a 9mm case?  I started at 8.2 with a 115 fmj and it was way too slow. I have made a few rounds at 9.0 grains to chrono but haven't had a chance as weather isn't cooperating. 

[kneelingatlas]

5 minutes ago, Jmo2011 said:

What's the max amount of 3n38 anyone has been able to get in a 9mm case?  I started at 8.2 with a 115 fmj and it was way too slow. I have made a few rounds at 9.0 grains to chrono but haven't had a chance as weather isn't cooperating. 

 

I've done as much as 10.0gr, but depending on OAL velocity peaks at ~9.5gr.

Edited January 28, 2017 by kneelingatlas

[Jmo2011]

Thanks Atlas, I'm thinking I may have to go to a 124 to get enough pf. 

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

1 hour ago, Jmo2011 said:

What's the max amount of 3n38 anyone has been able to get in a 9mm case?  I started at 8.2 with a 115 fmj and it was way too slow. I have made a few rounds at 9.0 grains to chrono but haven't had a chance as weather isn't cooperating. 

 

You can get 9.6 grains in a case but at that point, the powder funnel may not drop all the powder into the case consistently and you have a lot of spillage.

 

I did make major at 9.4 grains.

[Jmo2011]

Do you recall the bullet profile and oal?

[BeerBaron]

7 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Thanks for the video...  Your press is really smooth...  Do you use the BallisticTools bearing kit?

https://ballistictools.com/store/dillon-press-enhancements

 

How much do you cut off of the index ball spring?  I'm not sure if the amount you cut off on a 650 would be the same as a 1050 (I have a 1050)...  I'm just trying to get an idea for a starting place...

 

I have been using BallisticTools derlin index balls, but not their roller bearings or cutting the index spring...  Changing to Open and trying to cram a lot of powder into 9mm cases has changed my mind about that...

 

Hi, I cut just half a coil from memory. Maybe 3/4 of a coil. Before you cut it get a spare as they go from useful to useless pretty quick if you cut too much. 

 

I do use a bearing kit too. I can't remember which brand but they are all basically the same. I just used a single washer on the 650. It goes shell plate, bearing, washer, bolt head. The 1050 I think is a little different because the ram goes through the centre of the shell plate. 

 

Getting the index adjusted with the index pawl was first. Then I played with delrin ball and cutting spring, then added bearing and the final improvement was tuning the tension on the shell plate bolt. 

 

Im sure with some time spent adjusting things you'll get your 1050 just as smooth with no more snap. 

[RaylanGivens]

16 hours ago, BeerBaron said:

 

Hi, I cut just half a coil from memory. Maybe 3/4 of a coil. Before you cut it get a spare as they go from useful to useless pretty quick if you cut too much. 

 

I do use a bearing kit too. I can't remember which brand but they are all basically the same. I just used a single washer on the 650. It goes shell plate, bearing, washer, bolt head. The 1050 I think is a little different because the ram goes through the centre of the shell plate. 

 

Getting the index adjusted with the index pawl was first. Then I played with delrin ball and cutting spring, then added bearing and the final improvement was tuning the tension on the shell plate bolt. 

 

Im sure with some time spent adjusting things you'll get your 1050 just as smooth with no more snap. 

 

That sounds like a smart course of action...  I have to admit that I've loaded over 25,000 rounds on this 1050 and I have never touched the index pawl...  I bought a few extras a while ago, but haven't needed them so far...

 

What do you mean by getting the index adjusted with the index pawl?  When I cycle the handle, the shell plate opening lines up visually with the centerline of the case locator pin...  Is there a more sophisticated method for obtaining the correct amount of index?  ...and how would you adjust it?

[BeerBaron]

My 1050 knowledge is pretty weak having not messed with them much. 

 

On the 650 there's a pawl on the left side of the machine that interfaces with the user plastic indexing ring and determines basically when in the handle stroke the indexing starts (and by extension when it ends). Getting that right does make things smoother. 

 

On the 1050 it operates differently. But the principle is the same. You want it set so that the index mechanism is finishing its cycle just as your handle reaches the rest position. Hopefully a 1050 guru can explain it better. 

[Tokarev]

Any recommendations for a 124gr JHP loaded to 1.145" OAL?

7.8gr or so as start?

Also, where are you guys seeing published Viht data for 3N38 and lighter bullets? All I'm seeing on the website is 147gr data.

TIA

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[racer-x]

1 hour ago, Tokarev said:

Any recommendations for a 124gr JHP loaded to 1.145" OAL?

7.8gr or so as start?

Also, where are you guys seeing published Viht data for 3N38 and lighter bullets? All I'm seeing on the website is 147gr data.

TIA

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

I worked up some short 3N38 loads with MG 124 JHP's last spring.

Started at 8 grains and that got me 1300fps / 161PF @ 1.135 OAL in my CK Thunder (KKM barrel and 3 popple holes).

 

My peak velocity (1375fps / 170.5PF) with 3N38 was with 8.5 grains at 1.135 OAL using MG 124 JHP's. 

Increasing the charge above 8.5 yielded reduced velocities.

 

This was nice shooting, but a pain to load and not the 172-174 PF I was trying to get in my gun. 

Highest I could get 115's was 168 PF and that was with the case as full as my 1050 could drop (9.8 grains).

LOT's of powder spilled everywhere  - interesting experiment, but definitely a no-go for me. 

 

Another problem with 3N38 in 9major is that the bullets tend to push back up after you load them - OAL increases due to very compressed load.

Assuming you are loading at 1.145 OAL so that your bullets don't contact barrel lead, this would be a real problem for you.

 

[Tokarev]

I'm interested in this mainly from a conversational point of view.

 

I recently bought a mix of pulled 9mm bullets from American Reloading. After sorting I have a good mix of 124gr JHP bullets to include XTP, Gold Dot and HST.

 

I'm curious about these premium bullets in ballistic gel after they've been "stepped on" a bit. I don't necessarily need to make major but would like to be able to achieve velocities that are a bit higher than what's normally commercially available.

 

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[Tokarev]

8.2gr 3N38 with 124gr Speer Gold Dot. Seated to 1.140"

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[chevrofreak]

My recipe and results in my CK open gun with 3 holes. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by chevrofreak

[JMcBurn]

So if I am reading this right with this powder you can make PF without going over standard 9mm pressure if you can load long enough to meet the 9x21 load data.

 

Is that right?

[Hi-Power Jack]

I seriously doubt that these are "standard 9mm pressure".

 

I presume, like most if not all, 9mm Major loads, that these are considerably OVER "std 9mm pressure" loads.

 

Should be worked up, slowly, with a chrono in a supported barrel and a very strong firearm, only.     

[superdude]

6 hours ago, JMcBurn said:

So if I am reading this right with this powder you can make PF without going over standard 9mm pressure if you can load long enough to meet the 9x21 load data.

 

Is that right?

 

In theory, yes.  CIP pressure limits for 9mm Luger and 9X21 are both 2350 bar (34,083 psi), and presuming Vit loaded them with 3N38 to the same pressure limit. You could ask them to be sure. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by superdude

[kneelingatlas]

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I presume, like most if not all, 9mm Major loads, that these are considerably OVER "std 9mm pressure" loads.

 

Presume and assume are not synonyms ?

[perttime]

If Vihtavuori publishes it, pressure for the Max load is within C.I.P. spec with the specific bullet and other details that they used.

 

"All the loads on these pages are pressure tested according to the C.I.P. method. The listed maximum loads should never be exceeded. "

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/about-reloading.html

[Tokarev]

So where are you guys seeing published Viht data for 3N38 and lighter bullets? All I'm seeing on the website is 147gr data.

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[JMcBurn]

It is under the data for 9x21 which is really just a longer case. 

 

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/9-x-21.html

[Tokarev]

It is under the data for 9x21 which is really just a longer case. 
 
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/9-x-21.html

Thanks.

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[Hi-Power Jack]

3 hours ago, JMcBurn said:

It is under the data for 9x21 which is really just a longer case. 

 

Wouldn't a "longer case" lower pressure ?  

 

I'd assume / presume that the pressure for the same load would

be higher in a shorter case and lower in a longer case ???

[JMcBurn]

 

1 minute ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Wouldn't a "longer case" lower pressure ?  

 

I'd assume / presume that the pressure for the same load would

be higher in a shorter case and lower in a longer case ???

 

Case dimensions are the same. So if loaded to the same OAL then the case volume for powder would be the same.

 

[perttime]

9x21 was invented to get around a law that prohibited "military calibers" from civilian hands. Italian, I recall. Over All Length is normally the same as 9x19. So is case capacity when loaded to 9x19 length.

[teros135]

2 hours ago, JMcBurn said:

 

 

Case dimensions are the same. So if loaded to the same OAL then the case volume for powder would be the same.

 

 

The 9x21 is a longer case and has more volume, can be loaded to little longer OAL.  

(Per SAAMI, 9x19 case is .754" long, volume 13.3 gr H2O; 9x21 is .833", 15.6 gr H2O.)

 

But, 9mm major is basically a "wildcat" cartridge, so we're not going to see much published load data (if any).

 

I load 9 maj with 124 gr PD or MG, 8.6 gr 3n38, 1.170-1.175" OAL, SR primers, cases sized with a U die (so they grab the bullet tightly).  171 PF.  No problems.

Edited November 26, 2017 by teros135