Will carry optics be permanent division?

[hitman]

I hope so.

We are seeing more people shooting CO but the total number has remained about the same, if that makes since.

I got classed and haven't shot it since but will.

 

 

[revoman]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

Wasn't it more like "Would you quit with the negative waves, Moriarity!"

Probably and all I could remember is negative vibes. ✌ I  also agree with your  next comment. ? rule!

[Dr Mitch]

13 hours ago, SCTaylor said:

You got guys going PCC instead of CO, a carbine with a red dot is cooler than a pistol red dot. How much has PCC grown?

Not much, but there has been a bit of traction.  We have four people doing it off and on, a few more building up guns for it.  I shot a stage for fun with a PCC; it was very, very fun.  I will build a rifle for it some day.

Anyone that comes around with a CO gun essentially gets ridiculed behind their back, and laughed at after the match.  Sort of the same thing that happens if anyone shows up here to shoot L10.  Not very nice.  I don't think CO will make it past the tactical turtles in the state of Oklahoma.

[trgt]

On August 29, 2016 at 11:34 AM, jeremy kemlo said:

How much advantage is shooting a heavier cz vs an M&P?

Not much, same as for production -- the shooter matters far more than the equipment. My decked to the nines delta-point milled slide aussie accu-shadow was easily beaten by someone who had invested 1/3 as much $ in their plastic gun + dot. The investment in their skill level mattered far more for match results. But I do ENJOY shooting my heavier CZ :-)

[Gooldylocks]

Not much, same as for the rest of the divisions -- the shooter matters far more than the equipment. My decked to the nines delta-point milled slide aussie accu-shadow was easily beaten by someone who had invested 1/3 as much $ in their plastic gun + dot. The investment in their skill level mattered far more for match results. But I do ENJOY shooting my heavier CZ :-)

FIFY

[bret]

On 8/29/2016 at 3:24 PM, JAFO said:

There were only 76 entries at CO Nationals, compared to 371 at the Production Nationals.  Since it's still provisional at this point, you may want to try to build something that can be converted back to irons in the future.

Can you buy a CORE slide by itself?  Would it be that much more than paying to have a slide milled?

There's only 295 registered for Limited Nationals.

371 for Production Nationals seems light too.

Nationals is an expensive match to shoot, it prices a lot of people out of competing and the marketing is pretty much non existent.

I don't think Nationals is a good barometer of how popular a division is.

Having a gun you can shoot multiple divisions with is a good idea, if you mill the slide for an optical, it can't be used for production anymore.

[jeremy kemlo]

6 hours ago, bret said:

There's only 295 registered for Limited Nationals.

371 for Production Nationals seems light too.

Nationals is an expensive match to shoot, it prices a lot of people out of competing and the marketing is pretty much non existent.

I don't think Nationals is a good barometer of how popular a division is.

Having a gun you can shoot multiple divisions with is a good idea, if you mill the slide for an optical, it can't be used for production anymore.

A few places will mill the slide and also make a cover plate. There is still room for a glock dove tail to be put behind the optic. Then you can go back to irons and still be legal for production w the cover plate. 

[bret]

Just now, jeremy kemlo said:

A few places will mill the slide and also make a cover plate. There is still room for a glock dove tail to be put behind the optic. Then you can go back to irons and still be legal for production w the cover plate. 

that is not correct, once the slide has been milled, it is not production legal.

if the slide is tapped for an optic, then it would still be production legal, but once milled, it is no longer able to be used for production.

[teros135]

6 hours ago, bret said:

There's only 295 registered for Limited Nationals.

371 for Production Nationals seems light too.

Nationals is an expensive match to shoot, it prices a lot of people out of competing and the marketing is pretty much non existent.

I don't think Nationals is a good barometer of how popular a division is.

Having a gun you can shoot multiple divisions with is a good idea, if you mill the slide for an optical, it can't be used for production anymore.

Yes, Nationals is expensive, but a whole lot of folks were already there for Productions Nats and could have easily stayed another day.  Looking at the relatively small number of classifications in CO to date, I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet, although it does seem to gaining popularity in some areas.  We'll have to wait and see; the next year should tell. 

[teros135]

6 hours ago, bret said:

There's only 295 registered for Limited Nationals.

371 for Production Nationals seems light too.

Nationals is an expensive match to shoot, it prices a lot of people out of competing and the marketing is pretty much non existent.

I don't think Nationals is a good barometer of how popular a division is.

Having a gun you can shoot multiple divisions with is a good idea, if you mill the slide for an optical, it can't be used for production anymore.

Yes, Nationals is expensive, but a whole lot of folks were already there for Productions Nats and could have easily stayed another day.  Looking at the relatively small number of classifications in CO to date, I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet, although it does seem to gaining popularity in some areas.  We'll have to wait and see; the next year should tell. 

[trgt]

8 minutes ago, teros135 said:

Yes, Nationals is expensive, but a whole lot of folks were already there for Productions Nats and could have easily stayed another day.  Looking at the relatively small number of classifications in CO to date, I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet, although it does seem to gaining popularity in some areas.  We'll have to wait and see; the next year should tell. 

I talked to a few who did prod nationals, but NOT CO, and main issue they had primary and often backup gun for production. They'd have considered CO it if easy to get a spare slide for their platform they could dedicate for the weekend for mounted optic. Across the board, it is not a quick/easy thing to buy an extra slide, and not everyone more than 2 deep on their production platform.

Sidenote, I think this was a little bit of a missed opportunity for the manufacturers to not have slides or guns available as demo program for CO match, or even to check out the different CO models side by side. I think you might have been able to pick up another 20-30, a good number would have taken advantage of that to add sunday to their schedule, IMHO.

[zhunter]

On 30 August 2016 at 7:34 PM, jeremy kemlo said:

I wanted to shoot production and carry optics in the same match and was hoping that with the slide milled the index would be close to the same. 

I had our Shadow slides milled by CZC and they are very close to iron sight height.

41 minutes ago, trgt said:

I talked to a few who did prod nationals, but NOT CO, and main issue they had primary and often backup gun for production. They'd have considered CO it if easy to get a spare slide for their platform they could dedicate for the weekend for mounted optic. Across the board, it is not a quick/easy thing to buy an extra slide, and not everyone more than 2 deep on their production platform.

Sidenote, I think this was a little bit of a missed opportunity for the manufacturers to not have slides or guns available as demo program for CO match, or even to check out the different CO models side by side. I think you might have been able to pick up another 20-30, a good number would have taken advantage of that to add sunday to their schedule, IMHO.

Great point, imagine if Glock (Title Sponsor of CO Nats) had a bunch of guns to loan out for CO Nats, I bet they would have had some takers on that offer

[Gooldylocks]

Great point, imagine if Glock (Title Sponsor of CO Nats) had a bunch of guns to loan out for CO Nats, I bet they would have had some takers on that offer

That would have been brilliant. Has some MOS glocks, COREs, Sig RXs... from a marketing standpoint it seems like thise companies would be really into that. Cause I imagine if a bunch of people shot your loaner gun for a match at least some would end up buying that gun later.

[jeremy kemlo]

5 hours ago, bret said:

that is not correct, once the slide has been milled, it is not production legal.

if the slide is tapped for an optic, then it would still be production legal, but once milled, it is no longer able to be used for production.

That stinks. I was told I could do that. Basically make my own core. Living in California makes this difficult. I can't get another M&p pro. I can't buy a core, or glock Mos. 

i have to modify my gun, a gun that I can't get any more, so that I can't use it for production or a production back up. Smith and Wesson won't sell just a core slide to go on my frame. But we have nice weather. ?

Any one want to sell a core slide?Or trade for a pro longs slide?

[ClangClang]

Post a WTB thread in the Classifieds. You'll have much better luck.

[jeremy kemlo]

44 minutes ago, ClangClang said:

Post a WTB thread in the Classifieds. You'll have much better luck.

I have had one there for a little while. No response. 

[ClangClang]

Not sure how this plays out with CA legality, but if you have a good relationship with a FFL.... maybe you can just buy any CORE from anywhere in the US, have it shipped to the FFL, you take possession of the slide, then sell the frame online (here or any other forum, to be shipped back out of CA), and your FFL boxes up and ships the frame out.

You never take possession of the actual firearm, so it seems like that should all be fine and dandy.

[BritinUSA]

3 hours ago, jeremy kemlo said:

I have had one there for a little while. No response. 

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-19223%2B4294949715%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%28p_visible%3A1%2Ccustomertypeid%3A1%29%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%7C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1

[UFO]

17 hours ago, jeremy kemlo said:

I have had one there for a little while. No response. 

I built a CZ SP-01 and had the slide and trigger done by Cajun Gun Works. Then I just bought another slide to use for Production and it only takes 30 sec to change it over. I believe aftermarket slides are legal for CO.

[CHARLES D]

Saw an adapter today from dueck defense mounted to a Glock 17 dovetail with a Doctor sight. It looked very clean. If I didn't want to get my slide milled then I would go this route.  Web site shows adapters for different type of pistols.

[rowdyb]

There was only one vendor at Prod/CO nats, and I was standing there the whole time it was open. The only gun visible for CO was my own personal match one I threw on the table. It generated as much interest as the Scorpion carbine. As Matt and I were both shooting on Sunday there was no way a table could be open. I don't know who makes the decision on who gets to be there and sell stuff.

Yep, the big issue is that you just can't seem to buy a slide alone for a gun you're probably already using in Prod. I bought a complete upper (slides, sights, barrel, ss guide rod, recoil spring) from CZC with a msrp of just over $400 and put in a dove tail mount and optic. Looking at retail prices that is $450 for a complete Shadow upper. $50 for the dovetail mount. $550 for the Trijicon RMR 2 or Deltapoint 2. That's over $1,000 to just swap top ends on your Prod gun and be good to go in CO. So you can share mags, holsters, frame, ammo, ect which is nice.

But you don't get a milled in sight. (AA charges $250 to mill a rear sight) You also don't have a spare gun.

I bet it would be more popular if the OEM's would open up on selling just slides. If people or business could buy just blank slides to mill or put in mounts on a whim because the slides were always in stock and around $200 you'd see the numbers go up.

And then of course the optic. I feel a lot of people think CO is a cheap back up to Prod. But then throw in the aforementioned trouble getting an extra slide how you'd like and then realize the msrp of the two sights most talked about is an easy $500....

Is all that worth it to run the same holster, mags and mag pouches??

Edited September 4, 2016 by rowdyb

[BritinUSA]

39 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

That's over $1,000 to just swap top ends on your Prod gun and be good to go in CO. So you can share mags, holsters, frame, ammo, ect which is nice.

I bet it would be more popular if the OEM's would open up on selling just slides. If people or business could buy just blank slides to mill or put in mounts on a whim because the slides were always in stock and around $200 you'd see the numbers go up.

And then of course the optic. I feel a lot of people think CO is a cheap back up to Prod. But then throw in the aforementioned trouble getting an extra slide how you'd like and then realize the msrp of the two sights most talked about is an easy $500....

Is all that worth it to run the same holster, mags and mag pouches??

You can buy a new CO gun with optic from around $900-$1300 depending on the gun and scope combination. I agree that the manufacturers should sell the slides for those that want to swap between divisions, but then they probably make more money by selling the complete gun.

Though the Trijicon and DeltaPoint are expensive, the Vortex Venom works just fine and is available for less than half the price of DP-Pro. The Venom is my backup scope in case of problems with the DP.

CO is not a cheap backup to Production especially for the high-end Production guns such as CZ and Tanfoglio, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than Open. 

[rowdyb]

yep, i dabbled with glock 34 and a cheaper mrds and it was a cheaper option. but if i wanted to shoot an accushadow in CO like I do in Prod the dollars would go up quite a bit. I'd be looking at well over 2k for a CO gun at retail.

[BritinUSA]

11 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I'd be looking at well over 2k for a CO gun at retail.

Ouch..

 

[rowdyb]

Adj rear sight Accu shadow worked over by us is 2k. Instead of lpa cut have them do rds cut. That's 2 grand. Then add optic. So yeah, over 2k easy to take the same gun I shoot Prod with and make it a CO gun.

http://automaticaccuracy.net/?wpsc-product=deposit-for-sp-01-accu-shadow-and-sp-01-accu-shadow-target-built-by-automatic-accuracy