Safe Area Reloads

[Bkreutz]

...................................

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Your best bet is to ask the MD at THAT match because there is always plenty of "Wanna be Range Police" that don't KNOW the rules looking to complain about something. If one of them see you doing it they are going to waste a good ten minuets of your day.

I have had a couple less experienced people ask me if what I was doing was OK. Fortunately everyone knows I'm a real RO that was worked and shot a bunch of big matches so they generally take my word for it. We also are fortunate to have quite a few trained and certified RO's in our club now. I see it as an opportunity to educate other shooters about the rules.

I'm not a certified RO.

Guess I don't have much to contribute.

[motosapiens]

Your best bet is to ask the MD at THAT match because there is always plenty of "Wanna be Range Police" that don't KNOW the rules looking to complain about something. If one of them see you doing it they are going to waste a good ten minuets of your day.

I have had a couple less experienced people ask me if what I was doing was OK. Fortunately everyone knows I'm a real RO that was worked and shot a bunch of big matches so they generally take my word for it. We also are fortunate to have quite a few trained and certified RO's in our club now. I see it as an opportunity to educate other shooters about the rules.

I'm not a certified RO.

i did not realize that. You should be. You have lots to contribute when you're not being a crabby old man on the interwebz.

[robb315]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Rule 3.3

[ac4wordplay]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

[jhgtyre]

At our club there are safe areas provided by the club. These areas have a list of rules. Those rules prohibit handling magazines in the safe area. I would say that handling magazines in these areas is a bad idea.

During sanctioned USPSA matches there are also safe areas put up by the match staff. I would say you can follow USPSA rules in those safe areas.

Perhaps the range officers who work for the club, not to be confused with the RO's of the event who volunteer and help the Match Director, would ignore the violation of our clubs rules but I have decided not to find out. I wouldn't want to rely on them giving a damn about rule 3.3 or any other rule created by an organization that doesn't sign their paycheck. I don't know that anyone has been given the boot for violating these rules but I don't know that they haven't either. I don't make a habit of finding out.

[nahanshew89]

I have a few magazines with the springs and followers removed for just this purpose. Like many have said leave your loaded mags behind and just take your empty or empties with you when you do it.

[lcs]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

Show me a USPSA rule that says a club cannot be more restrictive!

[sfchorn]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

Show me a USPSA rule that says a club cannot be more restrictive!

3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

[lcs]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

Show me a USPSA rule that says a club cannot be more restrictive!

3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

Clubs are membership owned and the elected officials/trustees can enact stricter safety rules if they choose. You want to have a USPSA match at that club, you abide by the rules of the club. Do you really think USPSA has any jurisdiction in a private club.......

Example: Club A does not allow steel. You really think the USPSA Pres can overrule that club policy?

[NickBlasta]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

Show me a USPSA rule that says a club cannot be more restrictive!

3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

Clubs are membership owned and the elected officials/trustees can enact stricter safety rules if they choose. You want to have a USPSA match at that club, you abide by the rules of the club. Do you really think USPSA has any jurisdiction in a private club.......

Example: Club A does not allow steel. You really think the USPSA Pres can overrule that club policy?

Well that example's easy, because there's no rule that says you have to use steel. You could just... not design stages with steel in them. No harm there.

But you can't, for example, DQ a shooter because they pointed their gun above the berm while reloading. Or, to reference the first bit, had ammo in the safe area and didn't handle it. USPSA has no jurisdiction over your club, but they will pull your affiliation if they realize you're doing things like that. Then you can run action pistol with whatever crazy safety rules you want.

Edited February 12, 2016 by NickBlasta

[frag316]

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

Please provide a USPSA rule that supports your statement.

Show me a USPSA rule that says a club cannot be more restrictive!

3.3 Applicability of Rules: USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

Clubs are membership owned and the elected officials/trustees can enact stricter safety rules if they choose. You want to have a USPSA match at that club, you abide by the rules of the club. Do you really think USPSA has any jurisdiction in a private club.......

Example: Club A does not allow steel. You really think the USPSA Pres can overrule that club policy?

So the reverse is also true--if a club wants USPSA matches at their club, they abide by USPSA rules.

I know I'm feeding the fire here, but it's pretty simple--yes, there are clubs that don't go to USPSA HQ and ask for exceptions to USPSA rules to accommodate their host range, they just deal with the host range's rules. Which is not surprising, because most ranges are run by "get off my lawn"-aged men who think that anything faster than Bullseye-paced shooting is ridiculously dangerous, and they have no interest to let these new-fangled shooter types into their club, because all of the gunfire interferes with them drinking coffee and bitching about their wives all day.

So it's not really about "overruling" anyone's policy. I imagine it's more like HQ calling up the club to talk it over and see what's going on and what everyone can live with. There's no reason to take a ridiculously Type-A silverback gorilla mindset thinking one side is going to dictate to the other. It's more like a dialogue.

If it's bad enough, then the USPSA Pres would tell the MD that there's no longer a USPSA-sanctioned match at that range.

[Sarge]

If you are going to deviate from the sanctioning agreement you really need to get something in writing from HQ. AND that deviation needs to be made very clear in all match announcements etc.

Remember matches can be attended by shooters other than locals. I can only imagine the rage I would feel if I took vacation and went to a USPSA SANCTIONED match and got DQed because of a stupid "club rule".

If your club can't meet the affiliation guidelines you should either get a waiver and post it or shoot outlaw matches

[teros135]

So the reverse is also true--if a club wants USPSA matches at their club, they abide by USPSA rules.

I know I'm feeding the fire here, but it's pretty simple--yes, there are clubs that don't go to USPSA HQ and ask for exceptions to USPSA rules to accommodate their host range, they just deal with the host range's rules. Which is not surprising, because most ranges are run by "get off my lawn"-aged men who think that anything faster than Bullseye-paced shooting is ridiculously dangerous, and they have no interest to let these new-fangled shooter types into their club, because all of the gunfire interferes with them drinking coffee and bitching about their wives all day.

So it's not really about "overruling" anyone's policy. I imagine it's more like HQ calling up the club to talk it over and see what's going on and what everyone can live with. There's no reason to take a ridiculously Type-A silverback gorilla mindset thinking one side is going to dictate to the other. It's more like a dialogue.

If it's bad enough, then the USPSA Pres would tell the MD that there's no longer a USPSA-sanctioned match at that range.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and wonder how old Frag is. Y'know, with all that ageist verbiage. Lest we forget, we'll all eventually become those "silver-haired curmudgeon" types, and then where will we be.

As a side note, I shoot at a Podunk rural club that, miraculously, hosts USPSA pistol, Cowboy action, and multi-gun. And the monthly club meetings generally have a lot of "old guys" who just shoot bullseye and rifle. Guess we're just lucky.

[motosapiens]

Clubs are membership owned and the elected officials/trustees can enact stricter safety rules if they choose. You want to have a USPSA match at that club, you abide by the rules of the club. Do you really think USPSA has any jurisdiction in a private club.......

Example: Club A does not allow steel. You really think the USPSA Pres can overrule that club policy?

clubs can do what they want.... unless they want to have sanctioned uspsa matches at their club, in which case they have to abide by uspsa rules, get an exception in writing, or not call their matches uspsa matches. At least 1 major club lost the ability to host uspsa matches due to enforcing stricter rules than uspsa.

[frag316]

So the reverse is also true--if a club wants USPSA matches at their club, they abide by USPSA rules.

I know I'm feeding the fire here, but it's pretty simple--yes, there are clubs that don't go to USPSA HQ and ask for exceptions to USPSA rules to accommodate their host range, they just deal with the host range's rules. Which is not surprising, because most ranges are run by "get off my lawn"-aged men who think that anything faster than Bullseye-paced shooting is ridiculously dangerous, and they have no interest to let these new-fangled shooter types into their club, because all of the gunfire interferes with them drinking coffee and bitching about their wives all day.

So it's not really about "overruling" anyone's policy. I imagine it's more like HQ calling up the club to talk it over and see what's going on and what everyone can live with. There's no reason to take a ridiculously Type-A silverback gorilla mindset thinking one side is going to dictate to the other. It's more like a dialogue.

If it's bad enough, then the USPSA Pres would tell the MD that there's no longer a USPSA-sanctioned match at that range.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and wonder how old Frag is. Y'know, with all that ageist verbiage. Lest we forget, we'll all eventually become those "silver-haired curmudgeon" types, and then where will we be.

As a side note, I shoot at a Podunk rural club that, miraculously, hosts USPSA pistol, Cowboy action, and multi-gun. And the monthly club meetings generally have a lot of "old guys" who just shoot bullseye and rifle. Guess we're just lucky.

Well, I'm half-Korean, so almost no one gets my age correct.

I happen to be 45 years old, but there are times when I wonder whether the 1970 model puts on miles as well as advertised.

The bottom line is that most of the people at ranges that have issues with USPSA rules generally have them because of the clubs' patriarchs' discomfort with the idea of doing anything than plugging away at targets at the 100 yard line and whose idea of "rapid fire" is one shot per second. The remainder are generally those clubs who are so risk averse they're afraid of people running around with guns, so they bubblewrap every activity to dramatically limit liability.

[twodownzero]

Your best bet is to ask the MD at THAT match because there is always plenty of "Wanna be Range Police" that don't KNOW the rules looking to complain about something. If one of them see you doing it they are going to waste a good ten minuets of your day.

The match director has no control over the rules and his or her opinion has no weight in an arbitration.

Of course range rules may still prohibit ammo in a safe area so make sure you read the signs posted around the area as well the rule book.

At a sanctioned match, only USPSA rules apply. Not local range rules.

Range Rules can be more restrictive.

No they can't. There are NO local rules in USPSA. The board will not give you permission; you might as well not even ask. This has been tried and rejected numerous times.

[gng4life]

No they can't. There are NO local rules in USPSA. The board will not give you permission; you might as well not even ask. This has been tried and rejected numerous times.

Can you give us any examples of clubs that went to the board and requested exceptions and what exceptions they requested? Thanks

PS - I'm not disagreeing with you since 3.3 and affiliation rules are pretty clear on this.