Sarge Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Other than just being childish calling it WO seems to assume that someone can't afford to shoot Open when perhaps they just have no interest in it. Lots of hate for this provisional division in here but thankfully it's moving forward despite the naysayers. Alma, I kinda laugh when they say I can't afford an Open gun!I'm not exactly driving a school bus and taking out loans for my toys So now you move to using personal attacks. I don't give two shits what you do for a living or how much money you make. Why should you? I am not easily impressed and bragging about income most certainly means nothing to me.I drive a school bus sure but I put in my time before that and must have done something right to be able to shoot this game when and where I want. I can say with certainty I have never taken out a loan to buy a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 So now you move to using personal attacks. I don't give two shits what you do for a living or how much money you make. Why should you? I am not easily impressed and bragging about income most certainly means nothing to me.I drive a school bus sure but I put in my time before that and must have done something right to be able to shoot this game when and where I want.I can say with certainty I have never taken out a loan to buy a gun. I am not sure where you are seeing personal attacks against you. You are the one who is applying a label to a provisional division that attempts to degraded those who are interested in shooting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 So now you move to using personal attacks. I don't give two shits what you do for a living or how much money you make. Why should you? I am not easily impressed and bragging about income most certainly means nothing to me.I drive a school bus sure but I put in my time before that and must have done something right to be able to shoot this game when and where I want.I can say with certainty I have never taken out a loan to buy a gun. I am not sure where you are seeing personal attacks against you. You are the one who is applying a label to a provisional division that attempts to degraded those who are interested in shooting it. You mean welfare optics? I have seen it called broke optics as well on other outlets. Seems to fit since one of the biggest arguments is that open costs too much. Say a provisional short lived division is welfare optics is in no way saying the people that shoot it are poor. Truth is this sport takes a considerable amount of funding to even shoot a basic production gun on any kind of regular basis. It's not cheap to play in USPSA. I mean it's not really carry optics unless a lot of people carry long slide full size pistols for CCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Damn guys, lighten up. I have to say, that "welfare optics" had me rolling on the floor. And just when I was not for it at all, I got cursed by it. It seems that the wife and kid want to try it...it's Minor, got a dot that they need due to vision problems, and they like light guns - BAM! Guess I'll be re-configuring a few guns to get them started in it. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 You all know the rules about posting etiquette. I'll repeat them anyway. .AttitudePlease be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It seems that the wife and kid want to try it...it's Minor, got a dot that they need due to vision problems, and they like light guns - BAM! Guess I'll be re-configuring a few guns to get them started in it. Minor is less intimidating for many people and the dot is the best part of shooting an Open gun, it's a double win and I suspect that a lot of people are going to be drawn to this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) We have not seen the official provisional rules yet, but if the weight restriction is as mentioned--- it sucks! How does a Glock 34 G4 with a RMR qualify as CO any more than Custom Shadow? How many people carry a Glock 34 as a CCW gun! CO should be any production gun with the additional allowable weight of the heaviest slide mounted optic in production for the public. Edited July 28, 2015 by lcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It seems that the wife and kid want to try it...it's Minor, got a dot that they need due to vision problems, and they like light guns - BAM! Guess I'll be re-configuring a few guns to get them started in it.Minor is less intimidating for many people and the dot is the best part of shooting an Open gun, it's a double win and I suspect that a lot of people are going to be drawn to this division. True but you can do the same thing in Open. I seriously doubt they will be in serious contention for Nationals titles any time soon so why should it matter? Let me retract that question, I don't want to start this conversation all over again. [emoji1] Sent from the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Which slide mounted optics are going to rule this division? Leupold Deltapoint Cmore RTS2 Trijicon RMR Others? Who does slide milling?? I'm game to try this division out if I can figure out how to setup my gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can't speak to the other scopes on your list but I've been running the DeltaPoint 3.5 on my XDM CarryOptics setup for over a year. I've had no issues at all with it. If you go with the current DeltaPoint scope (not the Pro) then I would advise getting a decent torx wrench for it, the one that comes with the the scope is not very good and it's easy to mess up the torx screws with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baparker13 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I have an RMR 02 still under evaluation at just over 2.5k rounds. No issues yet. Slide work was done by ATEI (http://ateiguns.com/). It's a precise fit such that they ask for the actual optic to account for manufacturing variables. They communicate well and production time is reasonable (3 weeks for me). I may get ridiculed but the RMR is on my carry Gen 4 G19. It's my do it all gun and I like going from the car to the competition and back to the car. I've been shooting Steel Challenge and local all steel matches in open division. I will return to USPSA because of this new division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suncoastarmory Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Which slide mounted optics are going to rule this division? Leupold Deltapoint Cmore RTS2 Trijicon RMR Others? Who does slide milling?? I'm game to try this division out if I can figure out how to setup my gear! Google Glock slide milling and Glock RMR and you should find several companies that do the milling. Also, a number of companies sell new stripped slides already milled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 We don't even yet know if slide milling or aftermarket pre milled slides will be legal or if only factory optics ready guns will be allowed. Would be nice if they'd publish the rules since it seems like they've already decided on them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 one of the big problems I see with the logic used by th BoD for this division is that it would require many who already shoot Production to purchase another gun in order to play. How many people will do this for a provisional division? I know the theory is that folks will just take out their CO CCG and show up and shoot this division. But how realistic is this really? What percentage of Production shooters have been shooting their carry guns as Phil claimed was the orginial intent of Production and therefore will now just bring a CO gun they happen to own? Carry guns & USPSA don't seem to fit very well .... this seems a lot more like IDPA to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 There are a lot of mounts out there that fit into an existing dovetail, I have one on my XDM. No milling of the slide is required for most guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Mike Foley has relayed, from Phil Strader, that: any gun on the production list can be used as long as the weight does not exceed 35 ounces, with a magazine installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 one of the big problems I see with the logic used by th BoD for this division is that it would require many who already shoot Production to purchase another gun in order to play. How many people will do this for a provisional division? I know the theory is that folks will just take out their CO CCG and show up and shoot this division. But how realistic is this really? What percentage of Production shooters have been shooting their carry guns as Phil claimed was the orginial intent of Production and therefore will now just bring a CO gun they happen to own? Carry guns & USPSA don't seem to fit very well .... this seems a lot more like IDPA to me? I'll probably give this a try. Many folks, myself included have a Glock (M&P/Xdm) laying around. Thanks to this thread I now know there are dovetail mounts. Wouldn't take much to get set up. Unfortunately we need the rules before doing so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suncoastarmory Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 There are a lot of mounts out there that fit into an existing dovetail, I have one on my XDM. No milling of the slide is required for most guns.What has been your experience with the dovetail mount? Would be cheaper to try it out and see if you like it before buying a new gun thats already milled or milling an existing gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) "THIS IS THE DUMBEST IDEA EVER" is what I thought months ago driving with friends to an area match when the topic of Production Optics arose. I started USPSA with a Glock 34 and it is now my guest gun (friends from of town, teaching friends and kids how to shoot...) and sits ignored in the safe. So, I just ordered a Deltapoint 7.5MOA new for $300 shipped. Used Paypal so I can pay over six months with no interest. I think it sounds like fun to try - at worst, I'm spent $300 and can either recover most of it through classifieds, or use it on an offset mount on my rifle. WOOHOO!!!! Lester Edited July 29, 2015 by SpankYa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What has been your experience with the dovetail mount? Would be cheaper to try it out and see if you like it before buying a new gun thats already milled or milling an existing gun. The scope will sit higher than it would with milling the slide, but the cost of the dovetail mounts are generally pretty reasonable. The one for the XDM replaces the adjustable rear sight, here's a picture of it: I just drifted out the roll pin, un-screwed the height adjustment screw to remove the sight, dropped the plate into the hole and screwed it in place. The DeltaPoint screws onto that mount. It took about 5 minutes to install. The good thing about trying this out with a mount first is that if you don't like it you can always just sell the scope and the plate, and go back to a perfectly legal Production gun. I would recommend doing this until Carry Optics becomes a fully fledged division (assuming it does). If you wanted to keep shooting Carry Optics then it might be prudent to mill the slide and then sell the redundant plate or buy a replacement slide and get that milled out. Again the advantage with the latter option is that you could then swap between slides and have a gun that is legal for both Carry Optics and Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 There are a lot of mounts out there that fit into an existing dovetail, I have one on my XDM. No milling of the slide is required for most guns.What has been your experience with the dovetail mount? Would be cheaper to try it out and see if you like it before buying a new gun thats already milled or milling an existing gun. The Deltapoint comes with dovetail mounts for many pistols. Per their website: "The DeltaPoint Kit comes with a complete mounting system compatible with most common handguns including: Beretta 92 Beretta 90-TWO Beretta 96 Taurus PT99 Glock 17 Glock 22 Glock 23 Glock 26 HK-P2000 SIG SAUER P226 Smith & Wesson Revolvers Smith & Wesson Classic Smith & Wesson M&P 1911 Standard (Colt) CZ 75 Springfield XD Kimber Adjustable Kimber Fixed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Carry guns & USPSA don't seem to fit very well .... this seems a lot more like IDPA to me? It finally sunk in huh? My thought from the beginning was this has IDPA written all over it. The BOD just made it more clear by even naming it carry optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I can't stand idpa any more so i don't shoot it I don't like revolver so i don't shoot it My eyes are still good enough for iron sights so i do use them, who know about the future. I do know my 12yr old nephew likes my 22/45 with a red dot better than my mark 111, children may be our future, or so I am told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 "THIS IS THE DUMBEST IDEA EVER" is what I thought months ago driving with friends to an area match when the topic of Production Optics arose. Your friends are worried about you... In all seriousness, it will be interesting to see how your experiment goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankYa Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 LOL!!! Hope I don't get voted off the squad, but i feel I must try it before I criticize it. Test and learn. "THIS IS THE DUMBEST IDEA EVER" is what I thought months ago driving with friends to an area match when the topic of Production Optics arose. Your friends are worried about you...In all seriousness, it will be interesting to see how your experiment goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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