the infamous first

[tcazes]

Ok guys and gals. The time has come for me to move into the world of race guns, high capacity mags, and GO FAST!

My background has been primarily idpa esp but the dark side of the run and double tap just draws me deeper and deeper in with every uspsa match I participate in however, I don't want just a division win. I want an overall match win and that can really be done with only an open major gun. Consistently that is. That being said I have a few questions.

I already know I'll need for a minimum,

One big stick

2 little sticks

Mag holsters

Race gun holster (looking at ghost)

Gun

I see a gans blaster in the classifieds and it has me curious since I'm not to up to date on his builds. Would the gun in the classifieds here be a good starter for me? Price is surely better than a fresh custom build and leaves me room to purchase gear before getting shot by the wife...

Classified gun:

-The gans gun uses a threaded barrel. Any draw back to using this vs a trubore t2?

-being that the gun is melon it coated, how does this effect performance of moving parts ie the rail etc? When it wears off how loose will the gun be? To the point it must be coated again or just keep running it? I have never had a coated gun. Mine are blued mostly.

Custom build:

-I'm looking to go with EGM customs. Eddie is a great guy to talk to, still shoots, I have shot his builds before and they are down right flawless however, that all comes at a price. This does however come with the comfort I know I could just send it back to him if there is an issue.

What should be looked for when buying a "used" open gun?

Why is the gans so much cheaper than an EGM?

am I just being sticker shocked by an open gun and it being my first?

If I get the gans will just any smith service it or would I have ti send it back to gary?

Customer service is huge ti me and I simply haven't dealt with gans before so any advice would greatly be appreciated.

Also, what is the big deal on the slide ride click vs non click model?

What are the added benefits of a 90 degree mount other than clearer ejection path for spent cases and lower to the bore sight picture?

Is the slide ride the go to king or is the shorter rms etc just as effective?

[BeerBaron]

Slideride is still the number 1 optic. Click or not doesn't really matter. I prefer click. I have both and will be most likely upgrading my non-clicks to click when I get them rebodied.

As you pointed out 90 mounts give clear ejection path and lower sight to the bore. They are both good advantages. The only downside is cosmetics and some find the sight distracting when transitioning left (I don't and most others don't).

If you really value a personal level or service the only real way to get that is buy a new custom built open from a smith.

More than half the open guns out there are threaded bull barrel with comp or match barrels with cone and comp. there is no real disadvantage vs the trubor 1 piece. In fact a positive is you can change comps if you want or change barrels of you want.

I assume the gans is cheaper than a new custom egm cause it's used vs new.

These days $5k is reasonable for a custom built open. Ck offer a budget but still high level 2011 for $3500 which has all the bits to be a great gun. I'm sure if you bought one you'd get good support from bobby k or Matt c. Perhaps talk to one of them if either is local to you?

[Bamboo]

I'd modify the list a little:

Minimum mag quiver would be two 170mm and four 140mm mags - you want a spare 170, and for classifiers and mandatory reload type stages I find reloading a 140mm slightly faster and four should cover most any situation.

Also, after you get your load developed get about three cases of your favorite bullets plus the required powder/primers/brass. Then practice until they are all gone. Rinse and repeat.

Get a good gun that is reliable (very important) and accurate enough, then practicing until you can shoot it well without thinking will take you farther down that road than most anything. Often, I see folks jump into open and the first gun is basically a trainer - it is the second open gun they buy that is the keeper.

Good Luck!

[bigboy69]

2 big sticks and 4, 140's

Guga Ribas/ Ernie Hill, belt, mag holders and universal holster.

[tcazes]

I'd modify the list a little:

Minimum mag quiver would be two 170mm and four 140mm mags - you want a spare 170, and for classifiers and mandatory reload type stages I find reloading a 140mm slightly faster and four should cover most any situation.

Also, after you get your load developed get about three cases of your favorite bullets plus the required powder/primers/brass. Then practice until they are all gone. Rinse and repeat.

Get a good gun that is reliable (very important) and accurate enough, then practicing until you can shoot it well without thinking will take you farther down that road than most anything. Often, I see folks jump into open and the first gun is basically a trainer - it is the second open gun they buy that is the keeper.

Good Luck!

Reliable reliable reliable. That is my biggest concern with buying the used gun. With the EGM I know it will run. If it doesn't I can send it back but I don't really know much about the classifieds gun other then the brief search to the builders sight.

Dually noted on the gear. I'll start looking now for some svi mags or another brand (suggestions?)

[tcazes]

I'd modify the list a little:

Minimum mag quiver would be two 170mm and four 140mm mags - you want a spare 170, and for classifiers and mandatory reload type stages I find reloading a 140mm slightly faster and four should cover most any situation.

Also, after you get your load developed get about three cases of your favorite bullets plus the required powder/primers/brass. Then practice until they are all gone. Rinse and repeat.

Get a good gun that is reliable (very important) and accurate enough, then practicing until you can shoot it well without thinking will take you farther down that road than most anything. Often, I see folks jump into open and the first gun is basically a trainer - it is the second open gun they buy that is the keeper.

Good Luck!

Reliable reliable reliable. That is my biggest concern with buying the used gun. With the EGM I know it will run. If it doesn't I can send it back but I don't really know much about the classifieds gun other then the brief search to the builders sight.

Dually noted on the gear. I'll start looking now for some svi mags or another brand (suggestions?)

[tcazes]

I'd modify the list a little:

Minimum mag quiver would be two 170mm and four 140mm mags - you want a spare 170, and for classifiers and mandatory reload type stages I find reloading a 140mm slightly faster and four should cover most any situation.

Also, after you get your load developed get about three cases of your favorite bullets plus the required powder/primers/brass. Then practice until they are all gone. Rinse and repeat.

Get a good gun that is reliable (very important) and accurate enough, then practicing until you can shoot it well without thinking will take you farther down that road than most anything. Often, I see folks jump into open and the first gun is basically a trainer - it is the second open gun they buy that is the keeper.

Good Luck!

Reliable reliable reliable. That is my biggest concern with buying the used gun. With the EGM I know it will run. If it doesn't I can send it back but I don't really know much about the classifieds gun other then the brief search to the builders sight.

Dually noted on the gear. I'll start looking now for some svi mags or another brand (suggestions?)

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd suggest spending a half hour reading the old postings here re: OPEN guns,

mags, holsters and ammo.

HUGE discussion of all your questions.

Not sure I heard you mention reloading or chrono??? Very Important, also.

[tcazes]

I'd suggest spending a half hour reading the old postings here re: OPEN guns,

mags, holsters and ammo.

HUGE discussion of all your questions.

Not sure I heard you mention reloading or chrono??? Very Important, also.

I have read several of the old posts, the stickie, etc. Times change, technology changes, relevant gear changes so I wanted a fresh answer.

I do reload, I also chrono and we usually chrono after every local match to stay on top of things and kind of trend our reloads through the different Temps etc

Edited September 23, 2015 by tcazes

[Sarge]

I tend to go by" you get what you pay for" especially anything used. Unless I know the history of a gun or know the owner there is just no way I would buy one used.

I know nothing about EGM but I do know the reputable builders out there all take care of their customers extremely well. And a few are beyond exceptional when it comes to their builds AND CS. Look at the CK Arms guns. They are a great value and backed by two of the best in the business. Half of that team is Matt Cheely who just happens to be my builder of choice. He answers emails within minutes and at nearly any time of the day or night. He has personally picked my gun up from a match to take it home to fix it when my STI slide cracked. I had it back in about a week with a new slide. Matt even stands behind his guns when they are sold on these forums.

I would imagine Gans MAY be good as well. And EGM could be as well. But the CS bar is set pretty high when it comes to these gun builder guys.

[hellscomin]

I would call Eddie at EMG customs. He will be happy to answer all of your questions. He also has belts and Holsters. I'm currently waiting for my new Open gun with all the whistles and bells. Supper Nice guy and extremely knowledgeable. He does shoot and is a World class open shooters. Good luck on your journey.

[al503]

More is always better when it comes to the number of mags. If $ isn't a concern, get a bunch. However, I don't know of many situations where you're going to need more that 1 big and 3 short (or 2 big and 2 short) sticks. That's ~90-100 rounds and enough to drop and forget for the classifiers I'm familiar with.

[a matt]

Get the Eddie Garcia built gun, you will be at the top as far as guns and builders. Gans is also a top builder from word of mouth, I just have not owned one of his guns. I have and still own one of Eddies and will own more....good luck.

[JMontie]

Ok guys and gals. The time has come for me to move into the world of race guns, high capacity mags, and GO FAST!

My background has been primarily idpa esp but the dark side of the run and double tap just draws me deeper and deeper in with every uspsa match I participate in however, I don't want just a division win. I want an overall match win and that can really be done with only an open major gun. Consistently that is. That being said I have a few questions.

I already know I'll need for a minimum,

One big stick
2 little sticks
Mag holsters
Race gun holster (looking at ghost)
Gun


I see a gans blaster in the classifieds and it has me curious since I'm not to up to date on his builds. Would the gun in the classifieds here be a good starter for me? Price is surely better than a fresh custom build and leaves me room to purchase gear before getting shot by the wife...

Classified gun:

-The gans gun uses a threaded barrel. Any draw back to using this vs a trubore t2?

-being that the gun is melon it coated, how does this effect performance of moving parts ie the rail etc? When it wears off how loose will the gun be? To the point it must be coated again or just keep running it? I have never had a coated gun. Mine are blued mostly.

Custom build:

-I'm looking to go with EGM customs. Eddie is a great guy to talk to, still shoots, I have shot his builds before and they are down right flawless however, that all comes at a price. This does however come with the comfort I know I could just send it back to him if there is an issue.


What should be looked for when buying a "used" open gun?

Why is the gans so much cheaper than an EGM?

am I just being sticker shocked by an open gun and it being my first?

If I get the gans will just any smith service it or would I have ti send it back to gary?

Customer service is huge ti me and I simply haven't dealt with gans before so any advice would greatly be appreciated.

Also, what is the big deal on the slide ride click vs non click model?

What are the added benefits of a 90 degree mount other than clearer ejection path for spent cases and lower to the bore sight picture?

Is the slide ride the go to king or is the shorter rms etc just as effective?/quote]

I just received an open gun from Gans. Love so far, you send him a box of parts and he builds what you want. Took less than 2 weeks for the build (longer for shipping both ways than building).

Edited September 23, 2015 by JMontie

[tcazes]

I would call Eddie at EMG customs. He will be happy to answer all of your questions. He also has belts and Holsters. I'm currently waiting for my new Open gun with all the whistles and bells. Supper Nice guy and extremely knowledgeable. He does shoot and is a World class open shooters. Good luck on your journey.

Oh i have spoken to him believe me. Just time to save some extra cash I guess

[MichaelGj]

I would go for an CK Arms / Freedom gunworks / CC Gunworks, got my 2nd Open gun from Bobby and wouldn't hesitate on buying the 3rd one from him.

[echotango]

Also have a FGW and am very happy. 2x 170 and 3x 140. Never needed anything more.

Edited September 23, 2015 by echotango

[warpspeed]

If I was only looking at shooting USPSA / 3 gun type matches I think I'd get 2 170s & 2 140s.

[tcazes]

been chatting up eddie. think ill be going with his setup!

[Sarge]

I have too many mags. I ordered a bunch of tubes when I perceived there was a shortage about to occur. I know some will say there is no such thing as too many mags but when they are 100-150+ bucks each and you have them in every pocket of every range bag unused.......

[tcazes]

I'm going to be starting the hunt soon. i don't plan to end up quite like that but ill definitely need to order up a few.

[Dranoel]

My opinions, and they are just that, my opinions:

Ghost holster: I have the whole belt setup, belt, holster and mag pouches. So far I have been very happy with the way the gun comes out of the holster and it locks in solid. My only complaint is that the lock lever is hard to operate one-handed for everything but unlocking it. and being a little over sized right now I have to contort myself a little to get it locked.

Tru-bore and Poppel holes: A well fitted 1911will be just as accurate without the increased risk of slide cracking that inherantly comes with splitting the front of the slide. My theory on poppels is they bleed off the pressure you need to make the comp work before the bullet gets to the comp so it CAN work.

Optics: I'm using a J-Point slide mounted sight and I like it. Yeah it moves with the slide and you lose the dot for nanosecond while the gun cycles. I don't care hwere the sight goes as long as it returns to where it was before the shot fired. It does sit a little higher than I like but I am prob'ly gonna have it melted into the slide. As is, it gives me unobstructed visibility all around it. With my old eyes that helps a LOT. After close to 2000 rounds of fairly hot 38 supers it has yet to exhibit the first glitch. I will say that I got an 8 MOA dot, thinking the 4 MOA might be a little hard to see. Now I wish I had gone with the 4. It has no on/off switch or other adjustment other than elevation and windage, but I'm fine with that. I can see the dot just fine in bright sunlight, indoors or in the dark. That's all I need. Putting the cover on it turns it off.

As far as gunsmiths, find one you can trust. That's the most important part, knowing that the work is gonna be done right. Yes the best gunsmiths in the country will do you up fine. But they were all nobodys once too. Find a gunsmith and ask him about his experience with working on race guns. ( and 1911s or CZ/EAA, Glock or whatever platform you choose) Bullshitters usually show themselves pretty quick when you ask if they have and example of their work you can inspect.

Most importantly do what YOU want with the gun, not what everyone here tells you. Mine shoots great for me but you might pick it up and absolutely hate it. That's because you are not me and I am not you.

I would say that's my 2 cents but it came out more like a buck-fifty. Keep the change.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Dranoel

[tcazes]

Ha I'll take that change! All very valid points. The reason I'm going with eddie is largely the fact that I have inspected and shot his builds before and loved them.

The ghost is indeed awkward to lock one handed. I have witnessed this first hand but I think the positive lock and disengagement are worth it for me imo. Thanks for the responses everyone!

[BeerBaron]

There are other holsters with positive locking. Manny Bragg usa holster works similarly to the ghost but has spring assist and magnets which are an improvement. Has a better hanger too.

The DAA race master is more secure still. Instead of a ball it has a wedge/hook that blocks the trigger guard.

The ghost is an ok holster and was a ground breaking design at the time by amadini. But in the years since there have been some improvements in race holsters. The race master and manny usa are both better in my eyes. I've owned all 3. Still have a rm and a usa but not the ghost.

[echotango]

Switched to a race mastet from a ghost and wish I did sooner.

Edited September 25, 2015 by echotango