Thinking of getting into open

[Lazer]

Hey everyone,

So I started my competitive shooting adventure this summer by shooting some steel matches in the PA Steel League, and am hopefully going to get into some USPSA soon as well. I've been shooting production with my Sig 229, but am contemplating saving for an open gun over the winter and moving into Open next year.

I've been doing a lot of reading here on the forums about open, and especially related to eyesight. I have a pretty serious astigmatism, on top of being right handed and VERY, VERY left-eye dominant. While I understand that I will get better at tracking the sights the more I practice, the consensus seems to be that shooting with a dot minimizes the gap between those with good eyesight and those of us with crap eyesight. It also seems that switching back and forth between different gear and guns frequently will make it harder to progress quickly. I originally thought open was something I might try in the future when I have a lot more matches under my belt, but I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to just go for it.

I don't reload yet, but I will be getting into that soon as well, but for now I've been looking at the Steelmaster, and also the CZ Czechmate. While I think I can manage so save enough for an open gun, I won't be able to get two, so I'd like to have something that can pull double duty for steel and USPSA. I'm totally fine with just shooting minor in USPSA for a while as I get started both in that game and reloading, but from what I've read, it seems like the Steelmaster will run fine with major loads (once I have some reloading experience) with just a spring swap, and I believe you can make the CZ run with either as well without too much trouble, although there is less info out there on it than the STI.

So i guess there's a couple questions, will open be as awesome as I think it will for my useless eyes? And am I looking at reasonable guns to start? I have never shot an open gun before, so if anyone has either of those guns (or really any 2011) within a few hours of Philly, would you be willing to meet up somewhere and let me try it out to help with this expensive decision?

Thanks guys, this forum has been a wealth of information for a new guy to the competitive shooting!

[mro111lland]

I just got an sps vista short check them out at eagle imports is a factory open gun 2 port comp comes with slide racker and mount witch is junk put a 90 degree mount on it great trigger nice tite fitting gun bull barrel comes with 1 mag the guns are made in spain on a 2011 platforme use standart sti hicap mags u can order them directly form facotry in spain four about 100 bucks for a 170 mm mag (spsguns.com) all this for 1850.00 at buds guns have had mine for 3 weeks now 3000 plus rounds not a singal fauler I think are worth every penny checke them out great looking gun has a hard crome finish I know this sound like a sales pitch but had a hard time with the 3000 plus price tag for an sti o and all 1911 parts fit in this gun so parts are not a problem

[Foxbat]

Hey everyone,

So I started my competitive shooting adventure this summer by shooting some steel matches in the PA Steel League, and am hopefully going to get into some USPSA soon as well. I've been shooting production with my Sig 229, but am contemplating saving for an open gun over the winter and moving into Open next year.

I've been doing a lot of reading here on the forums about open, and especially related to eyesight. I have a pretty serious astigmatism, on top of being right handed and VERY, VERY left-eye dominant. While I understand that I will get better at tracking the sights the more I practice, the consensus seems to be that shooting with a dot minimizes the gap between those with good eyesight and those of us with crap eyesight. It also seems that switching back and forth between different gear and guns frequently will make it harder to progress quickly. I originally thought open was something I might try in the future when I have a lot more matches under my belt, but I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to just go for it.

I don't reload yet, but I will be getting into that soon as well, but for now I've been looking at the Steelmaster, and also the CZ Czechmate. While I think I can manage so save enough for an open gun, I won't be able to get two, so I'd like to have something that can pull double duty for steel and USPSA. I'm totally fine with just shooting minor in USPSA for a while as I get started both in that game and reloading, but from what I've read, it seems like the Steelmaster will run fine with major loads (once I have some reloading experience) with just a spring swap, and I believe you can make the CZ run with either as well without too much trouble, although there is less info out there on it than the STI.

So i guess there's a couple questions, will open be as awesome as I think it will for my useless eyes? And am I looking at reasonable guns to start? I have never shot an open gun before, so if anyone has either of those guns (or really any 2011) within a few hours of Philly, would you be willing to meet up somewhere and let me try it out to help with this expensive decision?

Thanks guys, this forum has been a wealth of information for a new guy to the competitive shooting!

I am in Wilmington, so you are welcome to try my guns. Send me a PM if interested.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Look at a STI Tru Bor in 9mm. It will work for steel and USPSA. You can shoot major or minor through it with just a recoil spring change. You may start looking here in the classifieds to find a gun that is already sorted and with some goodies with it. You are going to want to reload for an open gun so start collecting brass now. The Steelmaster is a good minor gun but not so good for major because of comp design and barrel length. I am getting to the stage now that I think I will be needing corrective glasses to shoot. Shooting a dot is easier for people with bad eyes that is why so many old guys like it I would try some open guns to see if the blast from them will effect you. The more you can try the better since some are better than others. Thanks, Eric

[Punished]

I'll probably catch for it but, Carry Optics might be what you want, red dot sight on a slide shooting 9mm with the benefits of not loading to 9major for a comp to work.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Greetings,

You describe two eye issues, cross dominance and astigmatism. I don't know much about the latter so can't really comment. Cross dominance isn't as big a deal as you think it may be...

There's lots of threads on here, a search will get you tons of info, in short don't sweat it.

As far as the poor eyesight issue, yes open may be way more fun. I wrecked my cornea and had a really hard time seeing the sights. I went to open looking for relief. It is much more " video game" like now, depth of field and focus is way more flat plane. BUT don't assume that an open gun will shoot itself. In many ways the dot can be more challenging on close in shots and weak hand shooting.

Also, open guns can be very temperamental. it takes patience and a lot of money to run open. If you are cool with that, go for it.

Just don't think open is gonna make you an instant rock star or be inexpensive!

Good luck amigo!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd try an OPEN gun first ...

See if you like it.

[zzt]

Lazer, I shoot three times a week at Delaware County Field and Stream near Media. If you like, send me a PM and we can set something up.

Here is my advice. There is no law that says you have to run a compensator in Open. If your eyes are bad, like mine, you can consider just running a red dot and have at it.

If you want to shoot Major, you are going to have to spend $3k to $5k for your setup. Major loads out of a comp are LOUD. You use a lot of powder. If you shoot 38SuperComp you'll lose a lot of expensive brass. If you shoot 9mm Major, you'll have very limited loading leeway.

If you are interested in having fun and don't mind shooting Minor, go for it. Mountain Competition Pistol sell a ready to go IPSC gun that you can put a red dot on. Here it is. http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/M9%20IPSC%20Match%20Pistol Dr. Nick will give you load data specifically for that pistol (Minor) when you buy it. It won't break the bank.

Another thing you could look at is just using a pistol designed for USPSA Limited division and put a red dot on it. For example, I bought a CZ 75 Tactical Sport. For $1200 it was ready to run out of the box. I bought a fourth mag and added extended base plates for all of them. I went 40sw so I could shoot Major or Minor. I also bought another top end for it and it is set up with a red dot and comp, so I can change back and forth in seconds. If you wanted to shoot Minor only, you could get one in 9mm and use big stick mags.

Shooting a bunch of guns first is a really good idea. That's what I did the third time around and it saved a lot of second guessing and heartache.

[jcc7x7]

It's addicting!!

[BeerBaron]

Firstly, yes shooting an open gun does level the playing field a lot between guys with perfect eyesight and those with rubbish eyesight. I know your pain. I suffer terrible astigmatism (degenerative cornea disease called keratoconus which basically means my cornea is egg shaped instead of nice and round). I struggled with iron sights and often had uncalled misses etc. Switching to an open gun saw me go from a C/D grade shooter in production to a B grade level shooter in open (which in my area is a more competitive division) in a fairly short time.

As pointed out open is not a magic gun. The dot will help solve your cross dominance and astigmatism issues but you'll be against guys with the same equipment. In open everything happens faster. People shoot faster, reload faster, transition faster and even seem to move faster! It's great fun though.

I honestly think a steel master is a poor choice as a major USPSA open gun. As Eric pointed out it's a short barrel and a small comp. both are not desirable for major pf. A far better idea is buy a gun built for open major, then shoot it in minor with lighter springs for steel challenge. It's far less compromised shooting a major gun with minor loads than the reverse. ie A trubor makes a better minor steel gun than a steel master as an open major gun if you get my meaning.

A trubor is a great gun and well proven in competition. Buying used you may find one with some nice extras like a racker, bigger magwell, trigger job etc.

The CZ czechmate is a great open gun too, but it's a bit of a loner. I would strongly suggest shooting a 2011 based open gun, AND a CZ based open gun as their grip size and grip angle are quite different. Most people will have a clear preference for one or the other. The good thing about the 2011 based guns is that if you don't immediately like the grip size/shape it's easily modified. Their grips are plastic so you can make them smaller or even bigger as you wish and change the shape and texture fairly significantly. The other advantage of the 2011s is the shear number of parts makers, gunsmiths and options to make the gun suit what you want. That kind of support doesn't really exist for the CZ platform (though CZC, CZUSA and CGW do offer great parts and support for them). For every CZ gunsmith around there is probably 10 2011 smiths. For every CZ open gun shooter there is probably 20 2011 open shooters.

The main thing is try and get ahold of a few different 2011's and hopefully a czechmate to have a shot of. It's better if you can try before you buy.

[Lazer]

Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely gives me more to think about, and I already feel more informed about what I might be getting myself into.

I'm going to be taking full advantage of every opportunity to try out Open setups and go from there, and I'll keep posting about my findings and decision making process for sure.

Thanks again to the guys who offered to let me shoot, looking forward to shooting with you guys and actually seeing what its all about!

[warpspeed]

I'd try an OPEN gun first ...

See if you like it.

Come on Jack - you know what will happen

[Bamboo]

Funny you wrote that. A while back I let a young hot production shooter mess with an open gun and I actually felt a little guilty....almost like I was introducing him to crack or something equally evil.

After steaming through the plate rack a few times and doing a some impressive bill drills on paper he said he liked his CZ production gun better and thanked me.

I thought that was cool. Odd, but cool. Maybe he was too polite to say that he will wait to get into open until his eyes go bad and he is too slow to reload. i donno.

My eyesight isn't that good any longer, but what I found is that good single visions that allow a decent front sight focus let me to shoot irons pretty well. For the red-dot open guns I use mild progressives for a target focus. So, glasses with a good prescription for shooting can help a lot no matter what type of gun you choose to shoot.

Definitely try a few open guns out if you can. Not everybody takes to their feel. Also, they require more attention and the oddest stuff can make them finicky, which can be frustrating.

I like open, but I really like revolver a lot, too. Been playing with single stack minor lately and doing OK, but when the weather cools down will go back to open.

It is all good.

Hope you find your happy place!

[Jrb305]

Hey Lazer, I shoot in the PA Steel Legue and have a Steelmaster. Shooting in the PM tomorrow, if you're gonna be there, you're more than welcome to try it out. If not, I have a pistol range at my land about 2 hours west of you. You can come out and blast some Steel there.

[Lazer]

I'd try an OPEN gun first ...

See if you like it.

Come on Jack - you know what will happen

Yeah, so that happened. Haha I tried out Foxbat's SVI the other day, they're amazing. It's crazy how loud, fast etc they are, yet the recoil is basically non-existant, took a little bit to get used to but man are they fun. Going to try out as many more as I can but I think open is in my future. I also learned you should keep your thumb nice and flat on the safety if there's a slide racker, mine snuck upwards a couple times and got smacked, didn't really hurt, or cause any malfunctions but its somewhat surprising when that happens haha I could see it hurting a bit if you really got wild with your grip.