What's great about .40 minor for Production?

[carinab]

I've been asked to draft an article looking at .40 minor in production and explore the whole perceived recoil issue. Please select a response that closest represents your opinion. If there isn't one, select other and explain your reason. A couple of lines about why you think .40 minor is the way to go in production would also be helpful. I've reviewed the threads and have found plenty of minor .40 recipes, so it's not necessary to post that information. However, here is another poll that asks what bullet weight you use.

Thank you!!!!!

[D.Hayden]

By voting for gear here, it's really because I have a 1050 setup for 40, and only 40.

None of the other gear (holster, mags, etc..) is shared.

I shoot Production and Limited in 40 and my wife is shooting a Glock 35 now.

Only L-10, I shoot 45.

[zhunter]

One press, too lazy to do a caliber conversion, so .40 it is!

[kevin c]

The first three apply to me, but I voted all of the above because that was the closest.

[Nemo]

When I shot production I only had a G35...

[dwt]

40 cal.,180gr and 3.5gr of TG,OAL. 1.125, is one of the softest shooting loads you will find and makes a bigger hole than a 9mm,for those perf hits.

dwt

[carinab]

Thank you and please keep it coming!

[Fireant]

For USPSA there is no advantage to shooting 9mm like there is in IPSC. Since we are limited to ten rounds, we might as well make bigger holes. I'd shoot my .45 Glock if it didn't feel sluggish at minor pf.

[benny hill]

9mm because I get it free.

[splashdown]

I am planning on switching to the .40 for reasons 1, 2, and 3 in the poll.

[Flexmoney]

Carina,

Do you still have that article on a computer someplace? How about posting it here?

[sargenv]

I like 40 in Prod because I can load the same ammo for Production and ICORE minor for revolver. Also have a limited gun in 40.

Vince

[carinab]

Ask and you shall receive...Hopefully no one at USPSA will object to me posting it.

minor40prod2.doc

[Resjudicata]

Great article.

And everybody thinks I'm crazy here locally when I say that 230 grainers feel soft in my 1911's.

It would have probably been outside the article but as far as slide speed with heavier slower bullets I went with a lighter recoil spring which sped up the slide and gave me what appears to be a quicker return of the front sight. Kinda what Mink said about using 9mm.

Chris

[Flexmoney]

Thanks Carina.

[steel1212]

And here I was looking into a 9mm xd for my production gun and thinking why not .40 and I stumble across this thread....good info guys!

[Mick]

Wow, what a decision! Free 9mm or load minor .40? I think I'll have to stick with 9mm unless the source dries up. I wouldn't load 9mm. If that was the case I'd load minor .40 so I could keep less components around and not have to change the 1050.

Mick

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I voted for other but there are some elements of 1 & 2 as well. Here is my logic.

1. My HK USP .40 is my conceal carry weapon. It is also what I shoot in IDPA.

2. The minor power factor crosses over for Production USPSA and SSP. This allows me to keep the same reloading settings on my lone Dillon 550B press.

3. I get more trigger time behind the gun a carry for self defense and up until this last month the rig I shot with was the same for both sports.

Recognizing the limitations my conceal carry rig presented in doing will in USPSA, I have since bought a new holster but the mag pouches have remained the same.

I believe over time as I make strides in my shooting I will take this same set up in to L-10 and load up to major, but I am not ready to make that move just yet.

[Bucky]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that it takes down steel better.

[jkushner1]

I bought an older Tanfoglio Longslide Sport .40 (4.5" bbl - hate to see there shorty ) from a gunsmith friend that used to compete with it the early 90's - he dialed the trigger in w/SA 2.8# and DA 5.5#, the gun still shoots great - I bought some Corbon Performance Match Minor .40 which makes about 132pf using 165gr MontGold TC - I did knock down steel better, the gun ran like a charm, I may shoot it at a couple steel matches, mainly because I am already dealing with a major equipment change, I pretty much exclusively shoot CZ's in Pd, and went from an 85 Combat finally after a year of owning the SP-01 to the SP-01 permanently (after a certain CZ Shooting Team member tweaked that trigger like I have never seen a CZ trigger tweaked - its gorgious, and he shortened SA reset to almost as short as the 85 Combat). I have Kinda found that my 147 gr 9mm 900 fps load - Hornady RN feels alot like that Corbon Ammo in .40 cal. As C hoping to become a B, I just may not be good enough to differentiate.

Edited September 20, 2006 by jkushner1

[Chris Keen]

There seem to be many advantages, however as I see it:

1. Bullets cost more (and seem to keep going up)

2. Cases cost slightly more

3. Loads require more powder, which increases costs

These are probably the only reason I DONT shoot 40 Production. As I do happen to own a couple of 40's. I like the bigger holes theory.

[Bucky]

There seem to be many advantages, however as I see it:

1. Bullets cost more (and seem to keep going up)

It seems the hot ticket for the 9mm is the 147 grain bullet, which are more expensive than 115 and 124, so the cost difference is not as much.

2. Cases cost slightly more

I've had a harder time getting good once fired 9mm than .40, and the cost is about the same. Plus, with the 9mm there is a chance of primer crimp as well as the fact that it's been shot through a sub gun. With a lot of police departments moving away from the 9mm, it's not quite as plentiful as it was 5+ years ago.

3. Loads require more powder, which increases costs

My favorite 9mm load is 3.5 grains of VV vs. 3.1 grains of Clays for the .40. Not only less powder for the .40, but cheaper powder to boot.

YMMV.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Bucky

[Flexmoney]

Now days , the difference in bullet prices has me thinking about switching to 9mm

When I was shooting a lot of Limited, it was a no-brainer for me to just keep shooting the same bullet for Production (just a little be less TiteGroup and I am good to go).

Brass I see a a wash...same with powder. But, bullet prices...I think I can get 4,000 9mm's for the price of 3,000 40's (I'm sure I'm fine with shooting 124g)

Maybe after Nationals...

[EngineerEli]

I hope it is ok that I am drudging up this old thread, but after a lot of searching most of the posts seem old, and I was wondering what the general consensus is these days??? I am in the market for a production gun (I currently shoot Limited and reload .40 on a single stage) and keep going back and forth on which caliber I should go with. I would be nice to keep all the same caliber and not have to have all that extra brass and bullets on hand, but I don't want to go paying more than I really need to to be competitive. At this point I feel like I understand the intricacies of the .40 cartage pretty well too.

Through out my considerations I have been wanting to ask a few questions that I have never seen brought up. I have read all about and understand the logic behind bullet weight and speed (KE) and slide dynamics with different recoil spring weights, but I wonder if another substantial component is not being considered...

Does the muzzle blast that comes out around the bullet as it leaves the barrel differently effect the recoil characteristics of a gun with a different load, bullet weight or even diameter. I want to say the amount of powder dictates the amount of gas produced then as the bullet leaves the barrel, I would think having a larger opening (.40) would allow the gases to escape with less velocity/thrust causing that component of recoil.

This is all kind of a mixed up mess in my head right now but hopefully someone smarter than I can consider these chemistry considerations and come up with a feasible thesis.

[HCShooter]

I have no idea about the physic's related to muzzle blast, but I would say it has some difference, although I would bet it minor. Think about shooting through a barrel/pipe, muzzle blast doesn't effect limited/production guns as much (or even noticable) as compared to an open gun which will dance around like a hula girl. Main reason, driection of gas flow. Limited/Production guns is more like a spray of water from a garden hose, tight and uniform as it exits the nozzle, starts to seperate into a cone shape as it gets further and further away from nozzle. An open gun is like a nozzle with holes in it, gas goes in every direction and can ultimately impact the gun/shooter which causes the gun to recoil unpredictablly. At least that's how I would think of it.

I will say this, when I first started shooting I had 1 set up, a G35 in .40 that I shot mainly in Limited. I pulled the magwell and get back to production legal and shot several matches to get classified in production and even a few state level matches with it. I thought .40 minor was the bomb... feather soft shooting, flatter, you name it I liked it. However, as I became a better and better shooter the timing of the gun killed me switching between major/minor, even with spring changes the gun just felt sluggish at around 140-145PF. I picked up a G34 in 9mm and loaded it up to about 143 PF (same load in my wifes M&P 4.25" is 135PF and the load was for her gun), 125gn bullet so fairly fast for 9mm. Suddenly everything fell into place for me, timing was so close to my .40 major, recoil impulse was the same, everything about it felt as if I was shooting .40 major, which made the transition between Limited/Production that much easier, and since I was only doing that 3-4 matches a year and not spending much practice time with the production set up, it just made more sense to me.