JJP161 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 That is an execellent point on the insurance and I will mention as I see you are in Ohio, currently Ohio Fire Code says you can store a max of 8lbs in a private residence, now don't get me wrong that is a low amount and would be difficult to enforce if not impossible but I mention it just for the same reason you said, the insurance. Insurance can jam you up if you are over what is legally allowed. Not saying they will, just that they can. Ohio is an ICC state, so that 8lbs may apply to a number of other states as well. By the way thank you for throwing it out of the house if you can. I certainly hope you never have to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Dunno - I've bought just over 70# of powder over the past 2 years. Most but not all online, one nice but small local deal of a reloader getting out fit (maybe 4-5# of powders I use, a couple others I gave or sold *cheap* to friends). Not all of it was at 'ideal' pricing, but leaving out the nice but small local deal, all was in the $17.50-$23/lb range besides a couple of # of overpriced gun show powders. 30+ # of this was pistol powder..especially for pistol powder, a few $ per lb difference just doesn't impact cost per round much, although I do get irked when I see someone selling an 8# or rifle powder for $200...and then go elsewhere. Was it a huge PITA? Yeah, at times...others was no problem, once I sorted 'what other powders will work well enough?' AND was ready to jump on it when it came along. There's nothing worthwhile truly local to me powder or primer-wise, but I have a pair of semi-LGS an hour away, both of which manage to keep a fair amount of powder on the shelves, including when some powders have been tough to find online. All of my purchases have been 'solo,' but now ironically, it seems large rifle primers are tougher to find, now that I'm starting to load .308.. I'm going to second the suggestion of going in with friends on a bulk order - I've got enough to keep me going for 'some time,' and will put together a 50# HazMat back-order with a few local friends with a reputable place, and it'll come in when it comes in. None of this is intended to imply it's all smiles and unicorns, just you do what you've got to to build up some cushion, then jump when you see a 'deal' (sometimes simply being defined as a specific powder being available at ALL, sometimes $, qty, ...)...and it is, IMO, getting better, if still not 'normal.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlightning Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Stupid question, how will they prove you have more than 8 lbs if it is all burn up in the fire? I have no knowledge in this subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJP161 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You wouldn't necessarily be able to, just depends on the circumstances. Again I was only mentioning as a courtesy but if a large quantity of powder burned up especially over 25lbs there would be burn patterns that would very clear indication that would leave us to suspect it and then the lab results would confirm, also if it was in a sealed container that was airtight it could explode. We had a firefighter that was actually shot in the leg on a structure fire. Bullets that are not in a chamber will go off but because it is not chambered the bullet really doesn't go anywhere and has no velocity behind it. In this case a gun was stored with a round chambered, the weapon was under the mattress, the bed was on fire, the round went off and the firefighter sustained a penetrating gunshot wound to his leg. Again in circumstances where people have 50-60lbs of powder in their basement and we make entry on a structure fire, that could easily cause a catastrophic event that may kill or injury a firefighter, if you advise firefighters of the powder and the location they can adjust tactics to hopefully prevent something like that from happening. I currently have powder, primers and ammo in my reloading room, if there was a fire here, and I could I would just tell the arriving firefighters what I had and where. They will still attack the fire and do what they have to but could take extra precautions to prevent it from being a larger problem or a nasty surprise. I know all kinds of people keep 15-20 gallons of gas in their attached garages, if I am fighting a fire in their garage I would sure like to know that before I put my guys in that garage with a hoseline if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlightning Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Thanks JJP161, I have never thought about it till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwinG Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 FYI: The limit for WA is 25 lbs. If over than 25 but under 50 lbs, it needs to be stored in a metal cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpredictable Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just going to leave this here for information purposes. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c As JJP161 mentions, loaded firearms could present a hazard to firefighters, my risk assessment as far as loose ammo, powder and primers are concerned...low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 FYI: The limit for WA is 25 lbs. If over than 25 but under 50 lbs, it needs to be stored in a metal cabinet. That doesn't make any sense. The metal closet then becomes the bomb. The plastic jugs on a shelf would be the safest I believe unless you go to the expense of building/buying a true "magazine" for storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) The closet comments == bomb are spot on. AFAIK, many counties/states defer to the NFPA 495 info, which is also referenced in SAAMI documentation on 'proper' storage of smokeless powder, primers, etc. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf Partial quote: Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in resi- dences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness. From Alliant: DO NOT SUBJECT THE STORAGE CABINETS TO CLOSE CONFINEMENT. STORAGE CABINETS SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTED OF INSULATING MATERIALS AND WITH A WEAK WALL SEAMS OR JOINTS TO PROVIDE AN EASY MEANS OF SELF-VENTING. ... 10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness. Edited January 18, 2015 by rtp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Sigh - BE's editor when doing multiple manual quotes got the better of me, and kept truncating the end of my post above. I don't agree with the limits imposed by the various links above, but wherever you may live, it might be wise to determine what the local limits/statutes are (if any), and stop people from posting about it being a 'good idea' to store powder or 10s of thousands of primers inside a sealed ammo can, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "I'm going to second the suggestion of going in with friends on a bulk order - I've got enough to keep me going for 'some time,' and will put together a 50# HazMat back-order with a few local friends with a reputable place, and it'll come in when it comes in." Someone please tell me where I can back order Accurate No. 5, or any pistol powder for that matter. I haven't done a thorough search. I do see Titegroup out there but the manufacturer of my coated bullets say it's not recommended. I used PB for a long time but it's discontinued. I have about 5 pounds of 7625 which gave me some inconsistent results in a small chrono test, and about 8 pounds of WSF. I wasn't sure about the WSF, but I bought it anyway... I see that some guys use 7625 and WSF for 9mm, so I assume I'll be OK for a while. I load about 500/wk and really don't have a lot of time for shopping around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "I'm going to second the suggestion of going in with friends on a bulk order - I've got enough to keep me going for 'some time,' and will put together a 50# HazMat back-order with a few local friends with a reputable place, and it'll come in when it comes in."[/size] Someone please tell me where I can back order Accurate No. 5, or any pistol powder for that matter. I haven't done a thorough search. I do see Titegroup out there but the manufacturer of my coated bullets say it's not recommended. I used PB for a long time but it's discontinued. I have about 5 pounds of 7625 which gave me some inconsistent results in a small chrono test, and about 8 pounds of WSF. I wasn't sure about the WSF, but I bought it anyway... I see that some guys use 7625 and WSF for 9mm, so I assume I'll be OK for a while. I load about 500/wk and really don't have a lot of time for shopping around. WSF should work fine with lead bullets, coated or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDA Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "I'm going to second the suggestion of going in with friends on a bulk order - I've got enough to keep me going for 'some time,' and will put together a 50# HazMat back-order with a few local friends with a reputable place, and it'll come in when it comes in." Someone please tell me where I can back order Accurate No. 5, or any pistol powder for that matter. I haven't done a thorough search. I do see Titegroup out there but the manufacturer of my coated bullets say it's not recommended. I used PB for a long time but it's discontinued. I have about 5 pounds of 7625 which gave me some inconsistent results in a small chrono test, and about 8 pounds of WSF. I wasn't sure about the WSF, but I bought it anyway... I see that some guys use 7625 and WSF for 9mm, so I assume I'll be OK for a while. I load about 500/wk and really don't have a lot of time for shopping around. I have had AA#5 listed in the classifieds for months, not one taker. I don't know of a place you can back order it and I haven't seen much of it over the past year (I saw it regularly before that). I'd think WSF would do fine for 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firewood Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 When I first started with this reloading hobby a mere 13 months ago, I went to Cabelas and asked for some powder and was given this blank expression by the salesman. So then I hit the on-line suppliers and after a week of frustration and no powder I decided to try the LGS. At the time, I was reading posts on online forums about the powder situation and based on what posters were posting, I was convinced that hoarders were the main cause of the supply problem. In January 2014, I found success at my LGS in that I purchased 1 pound of AA#2, a pound of Titegroup and a pound of Power Pistol. I set up my press and misc tools and started using the AA#2. Returning to the same LGS two weeks later, I purchased all the AA#2 he had which was 3 pounds and another pound of TG. So at this time last year I had 4 pounds of AA#2, 2 pounds TG and a pound of PP. As January became Feb., then March, I found other pistol powders at other LGS and my collection grew. Since that time, I have used up 12 pounds of powder and my collection currently has in excess of 70 pounds waiting to be used. In addition, I have a lot of powder on back order but have yet to see any of that material, some of those orders are a year old now. My attitude is get it if you can. I, like others, do a lot of shooting and I supply ammo to my wife, son and brother who also compete. If I had 200 pounds, I would use it way before I retire. Over the last several months, I have passed on available powders locally. When I drive past a store, I stop in and if there is powder, I get some. As another poster has stated, I'm a little pickier now and will only get those powders that I have found success for in my applications and I will pay market value but not higher. The experience of the last year has convinced me that the real hoarder (if you insist on that term) are the commercial ammo loaders, not the handloader (who uses 10s of pounds of powder, not tons of powder). But if someone insists on calling me a hoarder then have at it. I will not be caught scrambling the next time a crisis hits. BTW, I have a lot of primers also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was convinced that hoarders were the main cause of the supply problem. My attitude is get it if you can. I, like others, do a lot of shooting and I supply ammo to my wife, son and brother who also compete. If I had 200 pounds, I would use it way before I retire. The experience of the last year has convinced me that the real hoarder (if you insist on that term) are the commercial ammo loaders But if someone insists on calling me a hoarder then have at it. I will not be caught scrambling the next time a crisis hits. BTW, I have a lot of primers also. Why must you call names?!? We all love to shoot We have more in common than not, so why let inventory levels and personal financial choices divide us??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 "I'm going to second the suggestion of going in with friends on a bulk order - I've got enough to keep me going for 'some time,' and will put together a 50# HazMat back-order with a few local friends with a reputable place, and it'll come in when it comes in." Someone please tell me where I can back order Accurate No. 5, or any pistol powder for that matter. I haven't done a thorough search. I do see Titegroup out there but the manufacturer of my coated bullets say it's not recommended. I used PB for a long time but it's discontinued. I have about 5 pounds of 7625 which gave me some inconsistent results in a small chrono test, and about 8 pounds of WSF. I wasn't sure about the WSF, but I bought it anyway... I see that some guys use 7625 and WSF for 9mm, so I assume I'll be OK for a while. I load about 500/wk and really don't have a lot of time for shopping around. WSF does fine with jacketed or coated in 9mm Minor...wish I could actually score some more. Try MidSouth, Grafs, Gamamiels(sp?), and a few others - I think at least MidSouth is accepting some back-orders now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 gunbot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 FYI: The limit for WA is 25 lbs. If over than 25 but under 50 lbs, it needs to be stored in a metal cabinet. That doesn't make any sense. The metal closet then becomes the bomb. The plastic jugs on a shelf would be the safest I believe unless you go to the expense of building/buying a true "magazine" for storage. Metal cabinets designed for storage of flammable materials are safer because they provide an extra barrier to flame and heat. The same rules are in place for gasoline cans stored inside buildings. Also, the way the cabinet is made also determines how it will react to a prolonged heat source. (there may be areas in which pressure can escape, unlike a gun safe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mturnbull333 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I have 3 people in my house that shoot regularly, so needless to say I buy every grain of powder I can find and am still short! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S391 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Over 2 years after Sandy Hook and people still buy every last pound of powder they can get their hands on. When will the madness end? I miss the days of being able to buy whatever I want when I wanted it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't see people hoarding, my LGS has a good supply of powder and primers and the shelves stay full.... What I do see is a ton of new shooters who are actually out on the range shooting..... Everyone I shoot with reloads.... 5 years ago very few people I know reloaded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mell531 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hi Shooters, There must be a list or way of knowing what gunpowders, semi-smokeless products are the same even if from different companies. Which powders perform the same as or like others, the same burn rate, density, is it economical (pricing), low or high pressure, clean burning or not, uniform ignition, developed for what caliber and major or minor load velocity. I think we reloaders need a list of smokeless gunpowders that we can us if and when we need to substitute another powder and get the same or like performance. Mell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Powders with similar burn rates could be used if your preferred powder was unavailable; Winchester has such a burn rate table (as do other manufacturers) : CLICK Edited February 12, 2015 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 There are not many powders that are exact copies of each other. There is a lot of data or there in the different load manuals. If you take a look, it is pretty obvious which powders work for what. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mell531 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hi Shooters, There must be a list or way of knowing what gunpowders, semi-smokeless products are the same even if from different companies. Which powders perform the same as or like others, the same burn rate, density, is it economical (pricing), low or high pressure, clean burning or not, uniform ignition, developed for what caliber and major or minor load velocity. I think we reloaders need a list of smokeless gunpowders that we can us if and when we need to substitute another powder and get the same or like performance. Mell Is there a list of smokeless gunpowders that indicate similar density, pressure, ignition and burn rate?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hi Shooters, There must be a list or way of knowing what gunpowders, semi-smokeless products are the same even if from different companies. Which powders perform the same as or like others, the same burn rate, density, is it economical (pricing), low or high pressure, clean burning or not, uniform ignition, developed for what caliber and major or minor load velocity. I think we reloaders need a list of smokeless gunpowders that we can us if and when we need to substitute another powder and get the same or like performance. Mell Which powders are you trying to get/find a replacement for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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