Lets talk Classic Division

[jimbullet]

I am deciding on whether to go 40 or 9mm on a classic division. 40 offers 8+1 while the 9mm provides more capacity.

Which would be the best bet?

Oh and while I know the 45 acp would probably be the best however given that I shoot standard division, I have an abundant stash of 40's and therefore thought to keep it simple and shoot the caliber I have.

Needless to say, I also have 9mm's and so thinking of which might be better to complete in? Would you go for higher capacity or major power factor?

[MikeRush]

You don't have to lock in to either. If you build a 40 you can use the 10 round box legal Tripp mags and shoot major or minor.

I have a great 200 gr major load, and a 165 gr minor load with the same die settings and powder charge. I had my 45 rebuilt as a 40 to gain the flexibility to shoot minor for most matches- and then shoot major at the matches that are truly 8 round neutral.

[mach1soldier]

I really like my 9mm but hate minor scoring. I will say that the two extra rounds are very handy on steel or texas stars.

On paper stages, almost all my local clubs provide little advantage for minor. I mostly end up dropping the extra two rounds. Those times I really work to use the extra 2, I wind up taking longer shots then the limited / open guys. I do save a reload sometimes but shooting 15-20 yards means I'm not saving very much time compared to shooting it 4 yards away.

I'm a C rated shooter. If your higher up, then I would do the .40.

If shooting single stack nationals, stick with .40.

[IronicTwitch]

Minor scoring hurts. Unless you are very accurate at speed consistently I'd pick to run major. For IPSC you might find more courses with Production division with 14 rounds per position, but I think most are supposed to be limited to 8 rounds per position. If you regularly have "clean-up" shots then you may end up with more slide lock mag changes. In the end, the major scoring is the real benefit. I've been shooting USPSA Limited minor and I can't go fast enough to make up for my C's.

[motosapiens]

Minor scoring hurts. Unless you are very accurate at speed consistently I'd pick to run major. For IPSC you might find more courses with Production division with 14 rounds per position, but I think most are supposed to be limited to 8 rounds per position. If you regularly have "clean-up" shots then you may end up with more slide lock mag changes. In the end, the major scoring is the real benefit. I've been shooting USPSA Limited minor and I can't go fast enough to make up for my C's.

How many c's do you normally shoot? I tend to be a more accurate shooter. last match, shooting ss major, I had 15 c's and 70 A's, and 8 of the c's were on one semi disastrous classifier). So the question is could i have gone 3 seconds faster with the same scores while shooting minor, or could I have gone the same speed with half as many c's...... It doesn't seem impossible. I probably lost 3 seconds in one spot due to a miss and standing reload, but that's mostly a shooting malfunction. Looking back at match results when I have shot minor (production), I shoot about 80-90% A's depending on the difficulty of the match. Maybe that means I need to speed up, lol.

I'm going to shoot a bit of both this spring to get a feel for which works better for me. It's certainly not at all unusual for me to go to 9 or 10 shots when shooting production, so I think I'll be doing the same in ss minor.

Edited January 14, 2015 by motosapiens

[PatJones]

From the first post it seems you are shooting IPSC not USPSA. Does IPSC have the same restriction of no more than 8 shots required from each shooting position? If not, the extra two rounds allowed for minor scoring would likely be a bigger deal.

[CZinZA]

Ipsc does have the eight round limit per position

[motosapiens]

regardless of the 8-round limit, it's very easy to design stages (even unintentionally) where it's very advantageous to shoot more than 8 rounds from a position, or where the 'positions' are so close together as still make an extra reload a disadvantage.

[MikeRush]

The winner of the world shoot (and maybe the top 3, I would have to check) chose minor for that match.

Comparing to power factor choice in Limited is kind of silly in my opinion. 23 rounds vs 21 rounds has a minuscule effect. 10 to 8 rounds I think is significant unless its a SS only match where it is really designed to be 8 rd neutral. Just look at what a difference 8 round minor has made in revo.

As someone who has shot a lot of single stack (major) with a lot of Prod shooters, 10 rounds gives you room for more aggressive stage plans. That doesn't mean you hose steel but maybe an extra target between and activator and moving target or being able to take a target on the move on your way into a position.

The point I tried to make in the beginning is, if you go 40 you can use the same gun and mags for either major or minor- it just depends on your load. You could try both quite easily.

I will probably shoot minor most of the summer and switch to major in fall before WSSSC.

[motosapiens]

The point I tried to make in the beginning is, if you go 40 you can use the same gun and mags for either major or minor- it just depends on your load. You could try both quite easily.

that's a valid point, but imho its a good reason to go 45.... so you "have to buy a 9mm too to compete in minor, honey".

I thought the whole point was to buy more guns. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong...

[JimmyZip]

The point I tried to make in the beginning is, if you go 40 you can use the same gun and mags for either major or minor- it just depends on your load. You could try both quite easily.

that's a valid point, but imho its a good reason to go 45.... so you "have to buy a 9mm too to compete in minor, honey".

I thought the whole point was to buy more guns. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong...

Seems logical to me

[jimbullet]

Sounds logical that a 40 can go both ways and I didn't realize before that there were 10 round mags for it. Looks promising.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BritinUSA]

The winner of the world shoot (and maybe the top 3, I would have to check) chose minor for that match.

Robbie told me that he wished he had shot Major at the WS.

[2MoreChains]

Sounds logical that a 40 can go both ways and I didn't realize before that there were 10 round mags for it. Looks promising.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, the Tripp "System" mag which is essentially a 10mm 10 rnd mag body with the flex follower. I think you have to call Tripp to get them, or Shooter's Connection carries them.

[motosapiens]

Hmm, 1 gun that can go both ways,.... or 2 guns? Seems like a pretty easy choice to me. Not like with women, then it would be a bit harder require more thought.

[ROY NEAL]

Two guns....................I shoot Classic and Single Stack. Many match's I have attended were really not SS Major friendly. They are better suited to Production where capacity is....10+1. Same as SS/Classic Minor. Take a wild guess what is being built for me right now.......yep, a 9mm SV Single stack...........Match's such as USPSA Single Stack Classic are done right for Single Stack Major, so having one for each caliber is really the way to go. You show up at the match, check out the stages, declare your power factor and go from there.

[dansedgli]

Ipsc does have the eight round limit per position

Ipsc is 9 rounds per view which makes minor an easier choice than uspsa with 8 per view.

Most shoot minor where I'm from. The ones that shoot major often get punished with a static reload a few times in a match.

Edited January 14, 2015 by dansedgli

[RJH]

Build the dual purpose 40 or buy 2 that way you have a back up. I shoot SS and generally shoot minor but I do like the option of major depending on match style. The more noshoots/partials the more I like major. The 9mm in a SS gun is probably the best shooting gun I've ever used.

[CZinZA]

Ipsc does have the eight round limit per position

Ipsc is 9 rounds per view which makes minor an easier choice than uspsa with 8 per view.

You are right ... my bad

Edited January 15, 2015 by CZinZA

[motosapiens]

Build the dual purpose 40 or buy 2 that way you have a back up. I shoot SS and generally shoot minor but I do like the option of major depending on match style. The more noshoots/partials the more I like major. The 9mm in a SS gun is probably the best shooting gun I've ever used.

or buy 2 45's and 2 9mm's. That way you get to buy even MORE guns.

[IronicTwitch]

Build the dual purpose 40 or buy 2 that way you have a back up. I shoot SS and generally shoot minor but I do like the option of major depending on match style. The more noshoots/partials the more I like major. The 9mm in a SS gun is probably the best shooting gun I've ever used.

or buy 2 45's and 2 9mm's. That way you get to buy even MORE guns.

+1 for your keen sense of logic!

I didn't realize the WS Classic top guys were shooting minor, that is interesting...

[terrydoc]

Apparently both Todd J and Rob L did at the World shoot and as Paul the Brit say's the story is after the match Rob said He should have shot major.

[38supPat]

As mentioned IPSC is 9 rounds per position, not 8, and when you add in some matches fondness for unloaded starts (fortunately limited to no more than 25% of the stages per match in the new rule book) you get a short course with 9 rounds and an unloaded start. Not very major friendly for Classic division! Or worse, a series of 9 round positions. Most guys I know shooting Classic up here are shooting minor and a few are building .40's so they have the option of going major/minor depending on CoF. Pretty much no one is shooting dedicated Major.

[terrydoc]

Hi Pat

A few of us here in Victoria, Australia are coming up against this wall. We are currently the only State in Australia allowed to shoot .45 for Classic (so we are because we can .) But it's a choice we make going in so if the stages are not major friendly that's unfortunate but shooting .45 makes up for it as we had been denied since 2004. there are a few guy's in other state shooting major using .357sig, facing the same issues.

[ivan]

As mentioned IPSC is 9 rounds per position, not 8, and when you add in some matches fondness for unloaded starts (fortunately limited to no more than 25% of the stages per match in the new rule book) you get a short course with 9 rounds and an unloaded start. Not very major friendly for Classic division! Or worse, a series of 9 round positions. Most guys I know shooting Classic up here are shooting minor and a few are building .40's so they have the option of going major/minor depending on CoF. Pretty much no one is shooting dedicated Major.

Hi Pat... remember me?

3 National Championships in Classic: shooting Major each time. I've got a minor Classic gun as well, but I don't see a need for it very often.

-ivan-