Dustbuster1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Shot a stage today that had 4 paper slug targets and like 14 poppers and plates. I decided to load 4 slugs and work the rest of the stage w dual loads as needed. I had one box of fiochi slugs,10 in a box, I had 1 slug in pocket 4 in the gun w lead shot chasing them. One other shooter was using fiochi slugs who went before me. I shot my stage and the md claims : I shot the 6th target with a slug and DQ 'd me. I told him no way 5 slugs left in the box 1 in my pocket, and I hit all 4 w 1 slug each. One of the other guys dig into my ammo kit pulled out the fiochi box and showed him "he's got 5 slugs in this box" still DQ'd me. The md showed me a steel plate that looked like it took a was hit at less than 5 yards and claimed it was my shot. I'm sorry but a slug that close would have made a deep impression in that plate and removed paint What he showed me was where a wad hit the plate and not a slug. So not only was I dq'd out of the match, I couldn't even get my times or scores from practiscore. All blank. That burned my ass. Any input appreciated. If I botched the stage i would man up and take the highway w my DQ if I really had an infraction,but it was like I wasted my day...and the md didn't have the balls to admit he was wrong. The rest of my squad were pissed cause they knew it was a complete bs call.... Arghhh What would YOU do? Edited November 23, 2014 by Dustbuster1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 A slug on steel at 5 yds ? There's NO mistaking that. Just a guess but most likely that was a wad hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 tooth and nail pretty much said it. sounds like he was trying to do the right thing, but not listening to shooter and squad. did you ask him if he's ever seen a slug hit at five yards on a steel plate. it's really a big bang and the plate is big dent and far away.doesn't even have to be wad hit-what made him think it was slug hit and not shot? Flite Control Buckshot can sound like a sledgehammer on anvil at ten yards. Not saying you used buck-but what was his reasoning? I don't get it. It has nothing to do with the box of ammo and one in your pocket. What knocked plate down and what made him think it was slug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) I knocked the plate down using shot, he claimed I nailed it w a slug. The slug count is important because it validated that he was full of sht. One of the guys advised to not say anything as the md prob would have booted everybody off the match... His reasoning was allegedly safety, but when someone else advised him earlier to move some of the steel due to flying metal his response was : that's what eyes and ears are for".... This md is also the hmfic of the range. I feel like it's a my way or the highway thing but I won't tolerate getting f'd over. Period. Edited November 23, 2014 by Dustbuster1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I knocked the plate down using shot, he claimed I nailed it w a slug. The slug count is important because it validated that he was full of sht. One of the guys advised to not say anything as the md prob would have booted everybody off the match... Sounds like a great match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 It actually was a good time until that moment,as we had our usual suspects shooting together at a different location... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 OK, what is match? Goes in match to avoid list. Sorry for your loss. Sounds like IDPA thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 How far was the plate from the stand?. If it was a slug at 5 yards the plate that was hit would be be pretty far downrange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Donald Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Was the target you hit a popper? Even if the steel is not painted between shooters, any slug hits need to be painted over noted right away. Keeps any other shooter from being blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) questionable one was a plate which was resting on the ground no more than 5 feet behind the stand. The wad mark was dead center. The slug shots were all paper. The mark that was left on the plate was a wad mark and not a slug shot depression.The plate was @ 10" in dis. The md says: u did this, I said no. My proof is shell count, and simple observation of the plate in question,and one more guy shooting fiochi slugs who went before me.I say I shouldn't have been DQ'd,squad mates agree. Edited November 23, 2014 by Dustbuster1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Question is what the heck was a piece of steel doing only 5 yards away? Espcially in a stage with slugs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Sounds like this should be in a hate or rant sub-forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 DustBuster there is a reason I will NEVER set foot on that range again! EVER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hmmmm.......I guess we can all agree that M.D in this case doesn't mean "mathematical degree" or "doctor of common sense". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 To play devil's advocate, I have seen shooters swear up and down that they didn't shoot a slug on steel, but in 2 cases I saw last year the steel targets in question had obvious dimples in the steel so I issued DQs. In one case a shooter was stopped for slug on steel and I couldn't see any dimple although there was some heavy splatter on the steel. In the latter case I did not issue a DQ. One of the problems is that ROs may have a difficult time telling when a piece of steel is hit with a slug under some conditions. It is the RMs job to collect the evidence from the ROs and Shooter and make a ruling. I personally have never shot at a match where I thought the RM was trying to DQ shooters, but someone has to do the dirty work and there are often hard feelings. My suggestions is to suck it up and if you feel you were wronged, don't attend matches with that are run by that person. Complaining here will do little to confirm the facts of the situation and is unlikely to make you feel better about the DQ. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Some clubs rake-up the hulls between shooters so your not running on top of them. So it's possible your brand of hulls would be the only ones on the ground at that time. That would prove what cycled through your gun...!! Ya, hindsight for sure, and only if the shooting area is clear of hulls to begin with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Pictures. Eyewitness correct only half the time, allegedly, in common law. And psychological testing. Same as flipping coin. Video better. Hat cam everybody!! Wads don't leave an impression, they just knock stuff over, or make big ripping hole in paper. 1oz of lead slug on plate at 5 yds. That's like Mike Tyson punching you in mouth. It's not subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToysRUs Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 During Dustbusters run his first 4 targets were slug paper. His 5th target engaged was a full size popper. His 6th target was the 8" knockdown steel in question. So if he had loaded 5 slugs it would have been on the full size popper not the knockdown. The was no dimple in the knockdown. It was a wad mark OR because the steel was so close to us ( steel in question was 5-6 yards) that the wad had not really opened and the shot string was still compacted and freight trained right into the steel acting like a slug. Also the steel was 3 feet behind the stand. Not the 10 yards up in the woods if it was hit by a slug, More forensics indicate that the shooter had just opened a new box of 10 slugs. (I pulled them from his bag myself) There were 5 in the box and one back up in his shirt pocket.....Leaving only 4 to load in the gun. Either way IMO it was a messed up call and I can see why DB is upset, On the bright side there are 7 other clubs here in TN within a 45 min to 2,25 hour drive putting on monthly club matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the input,and I won't go back for sure. don't label my request as a rant as I asked DQ or not. The only three things that were hard to swallow was not being able to finish, not getting any of my scores or times, and learning one can get a DQ over something that's fabricated that wouldn't be recanted when proven wrong. I did have a good time shooting , got to meet toys r us and shoot with the rest of the gang.u have to have DQ's, to maintain safety,but I believed there was a check and balance for multi gun matches,I was wrong on this one. Heck I won't even shoot idpa because of the drama and crap hence my love for 3 gun. All understood Doug excellent points. I'll have my gear prepped and ready for the next one. All good!Thanks! Edited November 23, 2014 by Dustbuster1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 If it was a wad, it should not have even been a discussion with knowledgeable staff. That is why I called it a rant. Unfortunately, there are bad apples here and there. You used to have to look hard to find them, now they are more common, sadly. I hope you can attribute this to a bad MD and not the sport in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Wasn't this the 1st 3 gun match at this club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbuster1 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) 1st 3 gun match they had in 2 years.they usually run idpa outlaw steel etc. Edited November 24, 2014 by Dustbuster1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Question is what the heck was a piece of steel doing only 5 yards away? Espcially in a stage with slugs... THIS. The stage designer would have been wiser to insert something harmless (like static clays) after the slug shots, before moving on to steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alita Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I've seen small steel knock overs hit by slugs at about 5 yards, you find them 35-50 yards down range or the next pit over as when they hit a berm they continue to roll up it, it's kinda obvious. Also if you pay real close attention, slugs and shot sound different when fired. Shot is a short boom, slugs have slightly longer pow sound, that's as best as I can describe it. Where I shoot 3 gun we don't DQ for shooting kncok over steel with slugs, we give you a 300 second penalty and make you pay for the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ya I would say you got screwed on the deal. If he cant tell what a slug hit on a steel at that range looks like then he has no business running timers or matches. If it were me, I wouldn't just suck it up as an oh well incident. I would never set foot back at the club and would bash the club locally every chance I got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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