How to anticipate slide lock

[Wannawas]

I shoot IDPA, and hence have to go to slide lock often.

When my gun goes to slide lock, I don't notice. I notice after attempting to pull the trigger, which is inefficient.

If I shoot the stage without makeup shots, I don't have this problem as I know before-hand where I'll run out.

When I do take a few makeup shots, the slide lock invariably surprises me.

How should I train to improve on this - in dry, and live fire?

Thanks!

[Sarge]

Practice. Guns make a distinctly different sound when they go to slide lock in my opinion. They just feel and sound different.

[aandabooks]

Shoot stronghand only and use the fingers on your weakhand to keep track of your shots.

Seriously though the more you shoot the easier it will be to add shots up and know that when you've shot extra bullets where the slidelock would happen. Adjusting within the stage comes with experience.

[blairmckenzie1]

I've never shot IDPA, so slide lock isn't something that I encounter often, but I have a general idea when I'm getting close. You just need to be able to adjust your stage plan along with your make up shots. Sometimes it may not be worth the extra time.

[buckaroo45]

I donno ..... seems like counting on my fingers would be a step in the right direction. Thx fer the tip.

[wgj3]

The good news is that in IDPA, you have to make it to 10(11) at most. Maybe even only 6 or 8. I generally budget a spare round or 2 (when shooting Limited in USPSA) before my reloads. You don't have this luxury. In IDPA, you mostly have to plan to not miss much. The stages are so short, that extra mag changes and make-ups hurt. You should have a plan on each stage that has you reloading at a certain point with an empty gun. Subconsciously, you should realize that you just threw a shot and had to make it up and will need to reload at least a target sooner than you had originally planned.

Edited September 29, 2014 by wgj3

[Wannawas]

Shoot stronghand only and use the fingers on your weakhand to keep track of your shots.

Yeah I tried that, but I had to transfer to weak hand to continue counting with strong hand...not worth the time imo

Edited September 29, 2014 by Wannawas

[MAC702]

Eventually you will get to where you feel the difference in recoil and your body will start an emergency reload from muscle memory before your brain even tells it to reload because the gun is empty.

But until then, you can still help plan it out. Don't count total shots, but you can count make-ups more easily. Look at the stage and plan ahead. IDPA is short stages that will usually only have one reload spot to worry about. Have a plan A for not missing, and where to reload. Have a plan B for where to reload when you know you've taken one or two make-ups.

[Wannawas]

Thanks so much;

I see three categories of advices here:

1- Practice until it becomes second nature. You'll feel the minute differences (sound, weight, feel)

2- Count your shots

3- Plan the stage and have backup plans for x number of misses (count makeups only)

And of course, some advices are combos of the above.

Ok, practicing numbers 2 and 3 is straightforward (although their accomplishment is not). Number 1 is more feel based. Any advice on how to practice? For example, I'm thinking I'll load 6 mags, each with either 1, 2, or 3 rounds. Scramble, go at it a zillion times. Does this sound like an good plan?

I can't really afford a zillion rounds, which is why I ask. What training method would you recommend?

Edited September 29, 2014 by Wannawas

[rowdyb]

If it is mainly IDPA you're talking about then I find it helpful to know which target I plan the reload to happen on. Knowing what target the reload will happen on is good enough to plan your round dump so you dont acquire the same target twice, know if you shot more before that target so it might happen on a different target. If you're shooting esp or ssp and all things are how they usually are(normal capacity start, 2 rnds per target), it will be the 5th target for me most often.

So yes, count but I say count targets. Also after enough time, and shooting 147's, I can feel the gun get lighter as I shoot so if I space out normally I can feel if there are only a few rounds left and start preparing for the slide lock reload.

Also, reloads are one of the best things to rep in the garage doing dry fire if you ask me. Vest on, gun out in front of you with slide locked, par timer set to 2.0 seconds. Push the start button, going "bang bang bang bang" in your head and when you hear the beep do a slide lock reload and get back on target in those 2 seconds.

[SanityChallenged]

What training method would you recommend?

Pavlovian. You know, the ringing bell and the drooling dogs? Slide lock looks, feels, and sounds different than a regular cycle - maybe not enough to notice conciously while under the pressure of the timer, but enough to notice unconciously. You want to create an association between the unconscious slide lock sensation and immediately reaching for your belt & mag release.

Practicing surprise reloads by loading random amounts in your magazine is not the best way to create this association IMHO. You want the reaction to be immediate - not with a conscious diagnosis in between. Predetermined reloads will let you move more immediately to the reload after your last shot, which will create a stronger association.

Like every skill, start with dry fire. First, gun at slidelock, pointed at a target. On start signal, reload, then fire 1 at the target. Make sure your weak hand going for your belt and your thumb going for your mag release are moving simultaneously, and decisively in immediate reaction to the start.

Then some dry fire to practice reducing the number of make up shots you take as well as mentally marking the CoF. 3 targets of varying difficulty (use either different sizes to simulate different distances, or hard cover/non threats). Dry fire 2 on each, reload, 2 on each. Practice changing up your speed and sight picture requirements for the different difficulties. Before each run, visualize your sight picture on T1, your sight picture on T2, and then, while visualizing your sight picture on T3, have the little voice in your head desperately shout "Reload!" Then execute the drill, making sure you go immediately and decisively from your 2nd shot on T3 to the reload.

Then, in live fire. Easy target, fire 2, reload, fire 2. 2 before the reload to feel the difference between a regular cycle and slide lock. 2 after to make sure you're not losing your grip during the reload. Make sure initiating the reload after shot 2 is immediate and decisive. Don't worry about consciously feeling the difference between a regular cycle and slide lock - just practice decisive, smooth reloads and let your unconscious mind do its thing.

Move on to 3 targets of varying difficulty, 2 on each, reload, 2 on each and make sure you are mentally marking the stage so that your reloads immediately follow the preceding shot with no delay. Again, as long as your reloads are coming in the right spots with no delay, don't worry about them too much. Focus on getting your hits and reducing your need for make up shots.

Proceed on, continuing to work on your other marksmanship skills, and not worrying too much about your surprise slide lock. Use mental marking to make sure your reloads immediately follow the preceding shot in both practice and in matches, and over time an association will develop. Time will also move some of the skills you are executing consciously to your unconscious, which will allow you to process more complex stage plans and move your reloads around dynamically based on make up shots, but until you get there a strong association between the slide lock sensation and an immediate, decisive reload will serve you well.

[Wannawas]

Wow, what a beautifully articulated, well rounded post. Thank you for taking the time, SanityChallenged.

I dig Pavlov. But I didn't realize practicing surprise reloads would negate the feedback-based approach to training. Thanks for clarifying that.

For the part where I fry fire in three targets, 2 on each, and immediately do a reload, do I start with the gun in battery and pretend it's at slide lock after the 6th shot?

I feel you have given me a lot to work on.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Wannawas

[Wannawas]

If it is mainly IDPA you're talking about then I find it helpful to know which target I plan the reload to happen on. Knowing what target the reload will happen on is good enough to plan your round dump so you dont acquire the same target twice, know if you shot more before that target so it might happen on a different target. If you're shooting esp or ssp and all things are how they usually are(normal capacity start, 2 rnds per target), it will be the 5th target for me most often.

So yes, count but I say count targets. Also after enough time, and shooting 147's, I can feel the gun get lighter as I shoot so if I space out normally I can feel if there are only a few rounds left and start preparing for the slide lock reload.

Also, reloads are one of the best things to rep in the garage doing dry fire if you ask me. Vest on, gun out in front of you with slide locked, par timer set to 2.0 seconds. Push the start button, going "bang bang bang bang" in your head and when you hear the beep do a slide lock reload and get back on target in those 2 seconds.

Got it. This jives pretty well with CS's post. Thanks.

[SanityChallenged]

For the part where I fry fire in three targets, 2 on each, and immediately do a reload, do I start with the gun in battery and pretend it's at slide lock after the 6th shot?

Yes. The important bit here in regards to reloading is that while concentrating on your shooting, your reaction to your mental mark on the stage is an immediate move to your reload.

[JAFO]

Lots of good plans here for making slide lock happen where you want it. For those times when it doesn't, regardless of what gun you're shooting, recoil will feel different at slide lock than when the slide moves forward into battery. I feel it more in polymer framed guns, but I can tell in my aluminum and steel framed guns as well. Loading two rounds in the mag and firing them on a target a few times should allow you to feel the difference. Eventually, your subconscious will notice without you having to concentrate on it.

Also, perhaps you are focusing too much on the target, and not enough on the front sight? At slide lock, the front sight usually does not return to the same place after the shot.

[Blackstone45]

You should definitely be able to feel a difference in the recoil. You may also feel a difference in that the trigger won't reset

[Sin-ster]

Shoot enough and you'll start to be able to feel the last round strip off the mag, tipping you off a shot in ADVANCE that you're about to go into slide lock.

That said, when you know it's the last one left... try not to panic.

[Wannawas]

Awesome tips! Thanks all!

[Dirtychemist]

When I shot single stack in uspsa I counted bullets and planned my runs based on reloads. Start with one in the chamber and 8 in the magazine and count to 8.

[BGREID]

When practicing load 2 to 5 rounds only per mag, mix mags so you don't know round count, do your drills with added reloads. Soon you will know how your gun feels and sounds when it goes to slide lock.

[lawboy]

The gun feels vastly different in the recoil impulse if it goes to slide lock.if you can't feel it, work on your grip.

[GrumpyOne]

One word. COUNT.

[Solidgun]

You wouldn't have to count the shots. If you plan out the stage, you would reload at a certain point.

If this wasn't the case, I can usually tell because the way I look at my front sight post would have shifted as I am tracking.

[daves_not_here]

I'd like to add to what rowdyb about planning the reload. You already said this isn't a problem when things go right. Just add "feel" to the equation.

I look at it this way, I don't start trying to "feel" for slide lock until the fifth target (SSP & ESP). I don't count shots I just find that fifth target and make a mental note that reload stuff happens before I do the rest of the stage. I almost always shoot the 11th round into the fifth one to go to slide lock. It's not a round dump, the fifth target is always a tougher bad guy and needs 3.

If I did any makeups I mentally keep in my head that it's going to happen early and pay attention for the "feel". Unless it's a really bad day slide lock is going to happen on number five so paying attention to extra stuff happening at that fifth target spot helps.

It's like I'm in a different mental mode concentrating on the "feel" of the recoil but just for that spot in the stage. To me slide lock recoil "feels" lighter because the slide doesn't come forward. There isn't that weight at the front of the gun anymore and I don't have to look anymore and I just go for it.

If you do make the mistake and do a reload before slide lock keep trucking. It takes at least 3 seconds to pick up a magazine with ammo in it or try to figure out if you rode the slide stop, over loaded your magazines etc. Take the finger like a man and finish the stage strong.

DNH

[zjmccauley]

A lot of time with your gun, the feel and sound is always different