Onepocket Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Do you think the frame mods and external trigger mods will pass. I hope so my middle finger is killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doubtful ... Violates the very foundation of what the Production division is about ... If you want to make external mods to your gun we already have divisions you can shoot in ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doubtful ... Violates the very foundation of what the Production division is about ... If you want to make external mods to your gun we already have divisions you can shoot in ... lol, like we have one you can shoot a red-dot sight in too. Doesn't stop people from wanting to change stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Maybe allow grip reductions but that's about all I could see that would still seem fitting in Production. Female shooter at our club has to shoot limited because she did a grip reduction on her Glock 34 which is legal in IDPA ESP (still highly competitive there) but has to shoot Limited Minor in USPSA cause of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 If you want to make external mods to your gun we already have divisions you can shoot in ... I just think it would help even out the playing field with all these heavy stock 2 & CZ's with 2lb triggers. USPSA passed these guns for production and that changed the game. These guns are limited guns shooting minor in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doubtful ... Violates the very foundation of what the Production division is about ... Or, do we all just agree that ship has sailed and let the division continue to change with the times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Back when the BOD tried to put in a trigger pull weight in 2012, I went dumpster diving in the BOD minutes archive looking for an "intent" statement. This is the only thing I found in the USPSA archives at the time: 22 Jan 2000 minutes:"The purpose of production division is to open USPSA to new shooters, manufacturers and sponsors." I did not find any other USPSA statement. It seems that change may be good based on the original purpose of Production. Here is a thread from 2012 discussing intent. Within that thread is a link to an interesting IPSC perspective on production. ETA: Oops -- Here is the 2012 link: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=143671&p=1613346 Edited September 5, 2014 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 With 3 new BOD members, it is probably not a good idea to bet one way or the other at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 There is nothing production about production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 There is nothing production about production. I've long argued that the worst decision the BOD ever made about Production was to call it Production..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I prefer "Limited Lite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 I like that "Limited Lite". I shot ultra lite (limited minor) today. It was Rainy and didn't want to clean mags every stage. Limited minor is really a fun way to shoot USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) So if we're going to attack division names exactly what is Limited about Limited? The division looks more like Open-lite than Limited to me ..... Edited September 6, 2014 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 So if we're going to attack division names exactly what is Limited about Limited? The division looks more like Open-lite than Limited to me ..... You are limited to 140 mm mags, iron sights and non-comped barrels. Limited was born of the equipment race back where there were no divisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDPMatt Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 If you want to make external mods to your gun we already have divisions you can shoot in ... I just think it would help even out the playing field with all these heavy stock 2 & CZ's with 2lb triggers. USPSA passed these guns for production and that changed the game. These guns are limited guns shooting minor in production. I thought having the lightest limited gun was the hot ticket here on enos. That would make me think that the shadows and stock 2/3's would be at a disadvantage with alllll that extra weight. Something I read about transitions being way faster with like a 30oz lim gun..... Who's wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Chocolate and vanilla, what works for one will not be idea for another. Choices are what makes it fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Doubtful ... Violates the very foundation of what the Production division is about ... Or, do we all just agree that ship has sailed and let the division continue to change with the times? Sure, then we can start a new division geared toward new shooters emphasizing low cost through minimal modifications and call it, "Production...For Reals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Rules is rules and arguments of one brand gaining a perceived advantage over another comes anytime you have limited modifications allowed. Seen it in racing, see it here in Production. I don't think any of the proposed changes give some monstrous advantage. The guns are all about equal. I mean come on... Ben won with a Beretta. I run a CZ. You want to reduce your Glock grip? Have at it. For those that want the mystical perfectly level playing field create a division called SuperProduction. All stages are run with stage guns that are absolutely bone stock. Use AA ammo. Have one approved holster, mag set, ears, cap, shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOBGT Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Better yet go full communist and have one production gun that everyone has to use. For example Glock 34. There is a stage gun on every stage, everyone has holster and mags that work for a Glock 34. But everyone has to use the stage gun so there is no advantage. Level playing field. For the greater good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcobean Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Better yet go full communist and have one production gun that everyone has to use. For example Glock 34. There is a stage gun on every stage, everyone has holster and mags that work for a Glock 34. But everyone has to use the stage gun so there is no advantage. Level playing field. For the greater good! Welcome Comrade! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Wow. Sensitive bunch. All I want is a little finger relief for my middle finger. (That I am holding up for you right now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 If you want to make external mods to your gun we already have divisions you can shoot in ... I just think it would help even out the playing field with all these heavy stock 2 & CZ's with 2lb triggers. USPSA passed these guns for production and that changed the game. These guns are limited guns shooting minor in production. I think the CZs and the Tanfos have been allowed in Production for a long time. I don't think it was a recent thing that they were accepted into the division, I just think that Dave stopped shooting a Glock at about the same time Mink and Stoeger became the dominant Production shooters, and they both shoot heavy DA/SA guns. Oh yeah, and ze' Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougump Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think production has turned into the gamer division but I don't think it's because of the Tanfos and CZ's. At the end of the day it's the Indian, not the bow but I do shoot a Stock II:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So how has Production turned into a gamer division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 So how has Production turned into a gamer division? Heck no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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