Am I the only one that wants Production left alone?

[Fuelie777]

they need to leave production alone. No changes. It is to be an entry level division using standard off the shelf firearms with minimal modifications (all internal). Yes I shoot production on occasion, and enjoy it as it is.

[cohland]

Leave it be.

And production optics is ridiculous IMO.

Can I get an AMEN?

Amen!

[Nik Habicht]

Nah, let'm keep messing with it and soon I can shooting Production with this..............

Ok -- but you'll still get your butt kicked by the same people who do it now.....

[Nik Habicht]

I think Production works pretty well as is......

[zhunter]

No changes needed

But let's add Production Optics without any changes besides the dot

[RangerTrace]

Nah, let'm keep messing with it and soon I can shooting Production with this..............

Ok -- but you'll still get your butt kicked by the same people who do it now.....

Without a doubt......but I will look cool while having it done to me!

[Cy Soto]

I vote we go back to the time when there were only two divisions to choose from: Limited & Open; that's it.

[PatJones]

I vote we go back to the time when there were only two divisions to choose from: Limited & Open; that's it.

If you're willing to go back to single stack magazines, I'm in.

[ChuckS]

I vote we go back to the time when there were only two divisions to choose from: Limited & Open; that's it.

And 175 PF?

[Cy Soto]

And 175 PF?

My current Major load recently made 179PF at a Level 2 match so, sure, 175PF is fine by me. :-)

[zhunter]

Here is a variation of a post I made in another Production Optics thread, but thought it has a place here too:

USPSA shooters by nature seem to not like or understand why some shooters shoot a division other than the one they shoot. Limited shooters look oddly at magazine restricted divisions. Race gun shooters scratch their heads at production guys and wonder why they want to shoot plastic guns and crappy triggers.

Truth be told, we all like different things. Ice cream would even be boring if we only had chocolate and vanilla!

So, if you want to shoot "X" division, great, but don't fault a group that wants to shoot a production legal gun with a dot on it. Why all the intolerance I ask?

The argument from the Open shooters is just shoot open. As has been said the premise behind a Production Optics is nothing like Open. The Production Open crowd is not going to hurt the 3rd ranked division relative to participation! The PO shooter is never going to be an Open shooter, either because they don't want to spend or don't have the money to play with the cool kids. They don't want to be forced to reload. And let's face it, I'm sure every Open shooter can name some guy who shoots Open that does not reload, but let's face it, most likely over 95% of Open shooters reload.

As for the Production guys that are opposed to PO, sure there will be some crossover. But a lot of the PO shooters are probably like me and having eye problems. Yep, I took a 5 year break to do family stuff and when I wanted to come back I realized I could not see my front sight very well. So yes, rather than guys like me who might gravitate toward other hobbies, PO provides the opportunity to keep a group of aging shooters active. I've heard the argument that essentially says screw the old guys. That's funny! Look around the next local match you go shoot, yeah just step back and look around. If you rid USPSA of old guys, it dies! Old guys are the rank and file, old guys are the lifeblood of USPSA! Old guys foot the bills of USPSA via weekly and monthly shooting participation fees and yearly dues.

Just one more thing to think about with regards to Production Optics naysayers, are young people/new shooters joining USPSA at the same rate as older shooters are either dropping out or becoming inactive? Truth be told the answer to that is no!

Production Optics is a chance to strengthen the USPSA sport and organization.Kids play video games, video games have guns with red dots, kids think red dots are cool! We need young shooters and Production Optics is an opportunity to do that.Is a Production Optics guaranteed to be successful? No! But it might be. Give it a try. If you have really read up on the Production Optics threads, you will see that we are really asking for a provisional division. Let's give it a try and let it sink or swim on it's own.

[Luv2rideWV]

Plus 1, heck I wish they would have left revolver alone

AMEN!!!!!

The only good thing about allowing 8-shot minor in Revolver is that I get to buy a new gun. However, I wish they had left it alone. Providing a level playing field gives everyone a good place to race. Changing to the 8-shot creates an unfair advantage when you start shaving 2 or 3 reloads off a competitor's match versus the competitor shooting 6-major. ANYWAY, I feel the same about Production (although I don't shoot it); why create a grass roots type of division that anybody suppose to be able to compete in just to start gaming it? Isn't that discouraging to the new guy you want to draw into the sport?

Therefore, I say leave Production alone. However, I think Production Optics is a cool idea. Why? Well, I think the future will find more and more people shooting and carrying pistols with increasingly better optics. I bet we'll see new carry gun being sold that come from the factory like that, too. Also, I'm a diabetic and realize that a little red dot may extend my shooting career at some point as I age and possibly have medical issues.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Luv2rideWV

[teros135]

Who carries (i.e., trusts their life) something that needs to be turned on and adjusted before it can be shot? Come on, now! The "they just want to shoot what they carry" argument is just that, an argument.

For Production, leave it alone.

For optics, that's for Open. All the argument about bringing the "young people who are used to video games" into USPSA is a frightening thought - video gamers are used to shooting at representations of real people and seeing blood fly. That's not us!

And the whole thing about "you're going to lose everyone some day because they can't have their Prod Optics gun" is just another argument. We can't possibly be naive enough to believe that we're going to become Big Winners because we have a gun with a red dot, can we? Because in any Division the good shooters are still going to trounce the weaker ones (i.e., classes are still classes), and people are going to keep joining USPSA because it's a whole lot of fun. Almost any gun you bring, there's a Division for it. Come one, come all!

[BritinUSA]

My DeltaPoint does need to be turned on nor adjusted prior to use.

[zhunter]

teros135

Let me repeat, it's about participation. Those old guys that I was talking about, you are confusing them with someone who thinks they are going to win something. Without being offensive, I don't think you get it. It's only a small percentage that are in it to win. It's more about smack talking with your buddies and having fun. To many people a dot on a Production gun will increase the fun factor. Do you have an issue with people coming out and having fun?

Try it, you might like it

[kmca]

Stating which Division you shoot, should be mandatory in a thread such as this

[wide45]

teros135

Let me repeat, it's about participation. Those old guys that I was talking about, you are confusing them with someone who thinks they are going to win something. Without being offensive, I don't think you get it. It's only a small percentage that are in it to win. It's more about smack talking with your buddies and having fun. To many people a dot on a Production gun will increase the fun factor. Do you have an issue with people coming out and having fun?

Try it, you might like it

You make my point. Why can't this happen in open division?

[BritinUSA]

Stating which Division you shoot, should be mandatory in a thread such as this

Good idea... I'm shooting Production Optics (in Open Minor division)... XD(M) with DeltaPoint.

[Cy Soto]

Stating which Division you shoot, should be mandatory in a thread such as this

Good idea... I'm shooting Production Optics (in Open Minor division)... XD(M) with DeltaPoint.

...and kicking some serious butt too. :Thumbs_Up:

[kmca]

I guess I should have said, I shoot all the divisions (at least I did before the 8 round revolver change)

BTW, the only butt that gets seriously kicked, is mine.

Edited August 15, 2014 by kmca

[rhett45acp]

I vote we go back to the time when there were only two divisions to choose from: Limited & Open; that's it.

I guess I am getting old for I fall into this camp. I do "get it", the new divisions. I have shot all but Open and I will shoot open when my eyes start giving me trouble. I really like it when they post combined scores for all divisions. It just reminds me how much I do suck. So adding one more division, I am guessing will not create a new class of unheard-of champions that would have not been created under current divisions. Cream rises to the top. Period.

[Neomet]

I shoot Open, Production, Limited, have in the past shot L10 & Revo. Not entirely sure of what bearing that has but there it is. Wide45 makes a valid point. If you are in it for fun who cares if you have you have a division where your gun is da' bomb? I shoot Limited minor a lot and my results are never as good as if I shoot major but it is a hell of a lot of fun, especially with my Production gun and 23 round mags. On the other hand while us old guys like to have fun, the competitive juices aren't dried up and dead. If shooting with the AA Fuel dragsters with a PO gun drops you to the absolute bottom that won't be fun. It was why I quit trying to shoot my revo in Production. Finishing DFLast every week sapped the fun. I don't know...

Brit, how are you finishing compared to when you ran your big boy Open gun?

[Neomet]

Well, looks like Cy answered my question.

[zhunter]

teros135

Let me repeat, it's about participation. Those old guys that I was talking about, you are confusing them with someone who thinks they are going to win something. Without being offensive, I don't think you get it. It's only a small percentage that are in it to win. It's more about smack talking with your buddies and having fun. To many people a dot on a Production gun will increase the fun factor. Do you have an issue with people coming out and having fun?

Try it, you might like it

You make my point. Why can't this happen in open division?

I'll also be shooting my PO gun in Open Minor until PO becomes at least a provisional division

As for declaring which Division I've shot previously, I shot Limited until SS became a reality, since then exclusively SS. My PO gun outing in Open minor hopefully happens Sept. 20th, that is IF my gun arrives by then

[Nik Habicht]

teros135

Let me repeat, it's about participation. Those old guys that I was talking about, you are confusing them with someone who thinks they are going to win something. Without being offensive, I don't think you get it. It's only a small percentage that are in it to win. It's more about smack talking with your buddies and having fun. To many people a dot on a Production gun will increase the fun factor. Do you have an issue with people coming out and having fun?

Try it, you might like it

You make my point. Why can't this happen in open division?

Let's see -- there's two divisions for major caliber blasters holding lots of bullets, with tons of mods allowed -- so you guys get a choice of competing with irons or optics, while not losing any competitive advantage if you're willing to fund a race gun or three......

People shooting antique technology, i.e. guns invented over a 100 years ago, have their choice of two divisions depending on whether they like their guns flat or round.....

People wanting to shoot minor loading blasters, with restricted capacity and mods have a single iron-sighted choice.....