chuckbradley Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I received a PM today from a LEO who basically said there were several LEO's on the form that have decided that they didnt like what I believe and will spend their money elsewhere. I sent him a reply and decided to put that reply here for the rest of them. If they are so shallow to not be able to respect my opinion and think they need to spend money elsewhere then let them go ahead. Funny thing is most of those they buy from will feel the same, they just dont have the balls to speak their mind in a public forum. One thing about me you might have learned is that i am quite upfront about what I believe and you will always know how I stand. Too bad they or maybe you cant deal with that. If I have to be two faced and fall in line with what you believe to be in this business then so be it, I wont be. One thing going for me is that most respect me for that and do business with me becasue of that. Something you are forgetting . Our constitution recognizes(not grants) the right to keep and bear arms and that that right shall not be infrigned. Doesnt say unless an officer feels the need to disarm for his own safety. It says shall not be infringed. Dont give me the argument that the 2nd amendment isnt a personal right but a state right, the other 9 amendments are personal rights so why would we think #2 would be any different? You cant trust us, well we cant trust you either. I know theres allot of bad people out there and I would be willing to bet about the same proportion as there are bad people there are bad cops. SO the reasoning that there are some bad people and we dont know who you are goes both ways. I know you dont want to hear this but it is the truth. But cops go through a background check to make sure they are not bad, well so do CCW holders. All i ask for is a little respect as a person and ask to be treated as an equal instead as inferior. Good thing is , Most cops are good. Better, most people are good. BTW, My Brother in law is a Kentucky State Trooper and several of my best freinds are cops or retired cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Obviously people have the right to "vote" with their dollars and shop from whom they choose, but this is an unfortunate and unwarranted (in my opinion) response to Chuck expressing his opinion. I'm a little disappointed. I don't think it's much of a secret that I pretty much agree with him. I suppose I'm lucky I'm not a merchant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I have carried or at least had a gun handy for 40 or so years. I have hunted, been a PMI and a rifle company squad leader in Viet Nam. I have had a Texas carry permit from the very first and have been a CRO sience 96 or 97. I thought I had seen some boneheaded gun handling in my life until I was stopped by a deputy sheriff last year. Watching that nut trying to clear my SVI carry gun was one of the scarest things I have ever experinced. I finally insisted that he put the gun down and call his supervisor. I agree that a peace officer has a right to know that I am armed, but I no longer want a unknown person with unknown training and experience handling my guns.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Wow, I might disagree with Chuck but last time I checked this was still America. Hard to beat his service I must say that some people must be real thin skinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I talked to buddy today who is an officer for the state. He actually brought a knew light to the thread. He said as long as the individual is not threatening and their is no articualte reason to disarm the individual then , at least in Ky, the officer does not have the authority to disarm the individual. He said the State of Ky licensed that individual to carry a weapon and until that individual does something to warrant disarming then he has the right to retain the weapon. I posted this with his permission and welcome any corrections if I didnt word it exactly. I am pleased we have so many good cops out there who are willing to recognize a private citizens rights instead of using their power to trample on those rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Way to go for Kentucky, Chuck! Here in Indiana, I don't know of any cops who even ask about guns. They just assume you have one and if you keep your hands where they can see them, it's just business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Another Question. I see some posts on how many cops get killed every year. Believe me I honestly respect the risk they take out there. And I am not just blowing smoke. My Sisters husband and my nephews and nieces father is a State Trooper. But how many of those deaths came from CCW holders or not, that offered that they were carrying with a CCW license? I contend there hasnt been any but prove me wrong and I may just surrender my weapon immediately upon being stopped. Further how many came from somebody who admitted to having a weapon when questioned when stopped? I also contend that if the individual is a bad guy then he will not admit it and try to use it with suprise if they intend to do so. I hate that question. Forces me to tell the truth and force a confrontation on the issue or to Lie which I dont want to do. I will ad to the police that acted professionally though. I was stopped leaving the Tennessee State match for speeding. Doing 89/70. I handed the officer my license and CCW. He looked at the CCW handed it back and never said a word to me about the gun or guns. Still got my ticket though. Nevertheless that was professional! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I dont belive an officer should be allowed to disarm a legally armed person unless they are suspected of a crime or committing a crime. Not to mention the fact of the safety issue with the officer removing a loaded gun from my holster or car. It just isnt going to happen. If he insists and allows me to unload the gun safely and hand it to him I might. To keep from having the possibility of that confrontation I will just not offer the fact i have it. I agree with you Chuck on those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I received a PM today from a LEO who basically said there were several LEO's on the form that have decided that they didnt like what I believe and will spend their money elsewhere. I sent him a reply and decided to put that reply here for the rest of them. If they are so shallow to not be able to respect my opinion and think they need to spend money elsewhere then let them go ahead. Funny thing is most of those they buy from will feel the same, they just dont have the balls to speak their mind in a public forum. One thing about me you might have learned is that i am quite upfront about what I believe and you will always know how I stand. Too bad they or maybe you cant deal with that. If I have to be two faced and fall in line with what you believe to be in this business then so be it, I wont be. One thing going for me is that most respect me for that and do business with me becasue of that. Something you are forgetting . Our constitution recognizes(not grants) the right to keep and bear arms and that that right shall not be infrigned. Doesnt say unless an officer feels the need to disarm for his own safety. It says shall not be infringed. Dont give me the argument that the 2nd amendment isnt a personal right but a state right, the other 9 amendments are personal rights so why would we think #2 would be any different? You cant trust us, well we cant trust you either. I know theres allot of bad people out there and I would be willing to bet about the same proportion as there are bad people there are bad cops. SO the reasoning that there are some bad people and we dont know who you are goes both ways. I know you dont want to hear this but it is the truth. But cops go through a background check to make sure they are not bad, well so do CCW holders. All i ask for is a little respect as a person and ask to be treated as an equal instead as inferior. Good thing is , Most cops are good. Better, most people are good. BTW, My Brother in law is a Kentucky State Trooper and several of my best freinds are cops or retired cops. Chuck, I'm glad to see you're well educated and have such strong beliefs on our BOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 *SIGH* Some People are thin skinned, Regardless of their occupation. I really think we are all thinking on the same lines. I really didnt want to post again. As an LEO I will not disarm a CCW unless I step into a volatile situation in which I have no personal knowledge of the CCW holder, and in that situation he/she might be the problem until I get things sorted out. If people are not acting rationally and things are heated, which coincidentally is usally why the cops are called, I will be expected to restore order to the Chaos. If people are not rational or coherent and they advise me that they are carrying, and do not stay where I tell them to, or keep disobeying my directives, and cause me to have concern for my safety, then I will disarm them, but realize they will have caused it by their actions and demeanor. I pray everyday that if I am down on the side of the road that a CCW will stop and take the bad guy out for me. That is why I always check on cops on car stops when I drive by in case they need help(visually of course). Chuck, you are a stand up guy and I agree with you 100%. I had a CCW before I was a cop, and wont always be a cop. That is why I take the time to work with my people so they understand the consitution and our responsibilities. You can continue to take my money! DougC PS, even though Chuck is right on, remember in most states when the Officer tells you to do something, and you dont, you can be arrested. You may be morally right in your defiance, but you will lose in front of the judge because you violated a statute in your state. If you are asked/ordered to disarm, do so. The time to raise hell is with the Supervisor, when the Officer will have to justify why he disarmed the CCW holder. There is a check and balance system for this. It is not on the street at the time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Thats unfortunate, no matter what, if we are going to offer our two-cents, we need to be willing to listen to the opinions of others.. and if we dont like it, we can agree on one thing,,we can agree to disagree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I think it's time for the group hug now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 This has been (and still is) an extremely interesting thread...! (and pretty civil, as well... all considered.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktyler Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Cops are a very loyal group and if they view someones comments or views as anti-police, they will often choise to take there business else were. Same reason informed cops don't buy Paul Newmans products, or Ben and Jerry's Icecream. The FOP has put out a list in the past of anti/not police freindly business and I choice not to buy from those named. Same reason many shooters don't buy Nike products, they dumped a large amount of money a few years ago into the anti-gun campain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I, too, am encouraged by the the show of civility here. Goes to show that there is nothing wrong with folks who disagree, so long as they are respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 My guess is that this is an all-US of American topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 The FOP has put out a list in the past of anti/not police freindly business and I choice not to buy from those named. That's interesting because a lot of cops I know are anti-FOP, mostly because of their anti-gun politics at some levels. I know of at least one local chapter that cut their ties with the national organization over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 DougC, I agree with you 100%. Given the situation you described I would, in your position, disarm them also. I would also expect to be disramed if I acted as such. being a responsible gun owner I recognize the need to remain calm and orderly in any sutuation. It is my responsibility as a gun owner and CCW holder. And you are right. Even though I would voice my opposition to the order to hand over my weapon , as long as I dont feel my life, or family's, is in danger, I would probably go ahead and hand it over. I do draw the line if he demands to do it unsafely though, especially when my family might be involved. As in removing the weapon from the car sweeping those inside. If he insists on doing it unsafely I will ask for a supevisor. If any of you think I am anti-cop you are wrong. I am against cops that abuse their powers. And there are some , as well as some really bad ones. History, some recent, is full of incidences where the armed abuse the unarmed. I contend CCW holders that go through the process are on an equal basis. I expect the same treatment you would give anohter cop that was invloved. Of course if they were showing signs as DougC described I would expect they would get disarmed as well. Now as far as Ben & Jerry's Icer Cream is concerned. http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/9259641.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Sweet! you da man! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Have to make it clear. The idea was my dads and he was the one quoted by the paper. All i did was attend and apply the charcoal lighter. What was cool was we had a Ky National Guard Helicopter fly over at precisely the time of the demonstration. After the event a veteran who attended who is freinds with my dad left a voice mail on his cell phone saying "fellow veteran we 've got your back". It was the general who was flying the whirlybird. Of course they had to make a training landing close by to justify the trip. Sometimes they land next to the store, go to the pop machines get a few pops and take back off. I know off thread but interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 You gotta love that Bradley Family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Now as far as Ben & Jerry's Icer Cream is concerned. http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/9259641.htm I have a suggestion for your freezer section, Chuck, to replace the ben & jerry's... Star Spangled Ice Cream There's a flavor called Gun Nut too....Just for grins, check out the other ice cream names. To put this post slightly back on topic, let me add the following: Those of us with CHL's need to remember that when the cops roll up, they don't know who the bad guy is (even if you're wearing your white hat that day). If you have a perp held at gun point, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have him lay down in a position, (ankles crossed, arms out away from his body palms up, and facing away from you) so he can't see you. This allows you to holster up when the man with the badge arrives without the bad guy knowing you did so. If the dispatcher got things wrong and the cop arrives thinking things are hairy, he may draw on you - mistaking you for the bad guy. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 going back many year, about the time safariland came out with with the 2 belt system, i was returning from a practice session and was in my driveway. a friend drove up and while unloading gear, i proceeded to show him the safariland rig. slappend the outer belt on, put a few mags in the pouch (but no gun), when a cop drives by. now, i live in the people's republic of california, so this wasn't good. cop stops, get's out of car and walks towards me and friend (again, in my driveway), unholsters his sidearm and tells us both to put our hands behind our head. after explaining what i was doing, then having to explain all the gear in my trunk (i was at a 3 gun practice), all was fine. but have to tell you, have been soured since that day, many, many years ago. all for just wearing a race rig with a couple mags on it on my own property! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 And way back then it was probably still legal to carry openly in Ca. When we lived there my Dad helped with a drug bust in a local bar. In fear for his and his families safety he applied for a CCW. He was denied. This was in LA. They told him to carry a gun openly which was legal. Hasnt always been bad in Ca. Dad moved us to Ky in 79. Corina, I think they were going to put Hagendaaz in place of Ben & jerry's. I suggested checking their background first since it was going in place of Ben & jerry's. Star spangled is a little high to resell in a store. 15.00 a pint. But I like what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 One of the things I really like about this forum is the fact that multiple people can disagree on a topic, but not get nasty. It is refreshing to have a discussion in which people disagree about something and not resort to name calling, etc. When I posted this topic, I didn't expect it to spur so much interest. I greatly appreciate all that responded. There are many ideas/opinions that I hadn't thought of, and it really has me scratching my head. I guess I can't say that I disagree with anyone. On the other hand, if a LEO gives you an order, the smartest thing to do is obey. I certainly didn't mind being disarmed, but it was unnecessary. One of the things that really bothers me is the thought of someone handling my sidearm that doesn't understand it. A cocked and locked 1911 shouldn't be handled by anyone not trained to do so- no matter who they are. The LEO that took my pistol from me didn't do anything dangerous, but it still makes me nervous. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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