Chriss Grube Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I'll disagree with Chuck on this one. I'm as Pro-gun LEO as you'll ever find. I just don't like surprises. I've had 2 different times when I damn near capped some idiot that was legally carrying but didn't bother to tell me. One was a retired local cop that should have know better. Nothing worse than having some clown pop open the glove box reaching for the reg card and seeing a gun right there. If you're carrying I'll secure your gun until I'm done then give it back to you unloaded. Just remember"In God we trust all others keep your hands where I can see them" I'm going home alive and well end the end of the night, I don't take chances with people I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Doug and Chriss are right on. I drove a car with pretty blue lights on top in SE Atlanta for about nine years and now I am merely a legally armed citizen in the state of Georgia so I think I have a decent perspective. I don't think that giving up my legally possessed firearm to a LEO while he sorts out a situation I called him to is problematic. If you think that your safety would be jeopardized by doing so then maybe you should have just handled the situation on your own...The responding officer doesn't know the players from Adam; should he just take everyone at their word before he knows who is who? I certainly don't feel that my 2nd Amendment rights are being trampled upon because an officer wants to go home at the end of the shift. Continue to be careful guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traxman Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I think this thread is going in the right direction. If I encounter someone who states they have a legally concealed weapon on their person, I am not going to automatically disarm them. (Most people carrying concealed weapons in my neck of the woods are going to be off-duty cops anyway) BUT, if there is a situation where that armed person adds any additional threat to my safety, I am going to address that. That includes disarming that person. Granted, if I encounter people like those in this forum (i.e. calm and cooperative), they will be treated politely and professionally. Remember, most armed, non-LEO people that cops meet are the bad guys! There are lots of them and few of us. And while it's very easy to identify us, it's not so easy to sort out the CITIZEN from the CRIMINAL. (those are distinct separate categories ) I know that cops are often looked upon as THE GOVERNMENT, but most of us are just guys like you who want to make it home to our wife and kids when our shift is over. And, honestly, violating your rights is extremely hazardous to my health and career... traxman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 I am going to be as dipolomatic as I can,,so here you go.. You have a CCW and you are in a situation and LE is present,, If you are required by law to inform the officer,,do so. I would like to know for several reasons, one of which is; 1. if things go bad, the guy with the CCW can cover me. 2. Every call I go to, I know there is one gun present, mine.. many cops have gotten killed by thier own guns,,if there is another present, I want to know..All of you who carry a gun everyday, maybe you are good shots, but are you in any condition to prevent some puke from taking your gun, do you know gun takeaways, or how to prevent someone from taking your gun,,,chances are very unlikely.. Also, I tell many people I deal with, my job is the only job where people lie to me every day..no matter who they are.. Am I supposed to believe every Tom, Dick, or Harry who says they have a CCW for the gun tucked in their belt? If the officer asks to see your CCW, he or she may just be doing their job. If they ask if you are carrying a gun listed on your CCW, again, they are doing their job. If they ask for your weapon, (see #2 above) dont ask why, just do so..After its all said and done, then you can ask why. Dont assume the worst, there may be a legitimate reason. If you think the officer violated your rights or his/her Dept policy, then file a complaint with the officers agency. If you are not required to inform the officer, then do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Wow, the guys over at oregonconcealedcarry.com are going to LOVE this thread...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 "are you in any condition to prevent some puke from taking your gun, do you know gun takeaways, or how to prevent someone from taking your gun,,,chances are very unlikely.." Yep. Absolutely. I don't know about anyone else, but for me if I am going to carry a gun, I sure as hell better know how to keep it out of others hands while at the same time disarming the person who has his "piece" pointed gangster style at me from a foot and a half away. As my buddy Steve so eloquently puts it, "I can just see the headlines: Martial Arts and Firearms Instructor found shot from 2 feet away." I like the way traxman put it best. "BUT, if there is a situation where that armed person adds any additional threat to my safety, I am going to address that. That includes disarming that person. Granted, if I encounter people like those in this forum (i.e. calm and cooperative), they will be treated politely and professionally." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 14, 2005 Author Share Posted January 14, 2005 I appreciate the responses from everyone. I think Little Bill summed it up the best with his first post. I didn't have a problem being disarmed by the LEO. There are a lot of fine details that were omitted from the story just to keep it readable. First, Angelo went in the house while I was on the phone with his wife. As I was telling her to call the police, my friend Angelo was on his way in the house. At some point in the the conversation with police, Angelo took over the conversation inside while I was outside. Angelo told police that I was carrying. The dispatcher then assumed that the man in question was being held at gunpoint. I left out the part about three squad cars showing up. In fact I was asked by the officer if I brandished my pistol or told him I was armed. Who the heck knows what was relayed to those officers. I think the key issue here is officer safety. No one likes to be dominated or told what to do- especially if they aren't doing anything wrong. But until the situation is sorted out, I don't have a problem with being cooperative with the police. If he felt it necessary to disarm me, I certainly wouldn't advocate escalating the situation by arguing with police. I could have just not told anyone I was carrying..........Perhaps they never would have found out. But why not just do the right thing since I have nothing to fear or hide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 You guys keep talking it out...I have you all covered with my AR from 100y out...no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 This link will take you to an instructional video which details how civilians may best interact with the police to avoid any misunderstandings: video link You will need to download this file and run it from a local drive. And just because this is not the humor forum I'll mention this was meant to be funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 This link will take you to an instructional video which details how civilians may best interact with the police to avoid any misunderstandings: video linkYou will need to download this file and run it from a local drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 You guys keep talking it out...I have you all covered with my AR from 100y out...no worries. Oh, you know you have the dot or crosshairs right on my noggin! Admit it!! I'm the target! I'm being persecuted! Sac Law Man makes an excellent point ... if a cop demands the gun, just do it and argue about it late. But that's past the point where things should have gone under many routine interactions with police officers. The "officer safety" thing doesn't wash. No police officer on this planet is more important to me than ME. It's not worth risking getting holes in me where they don't belong because someone who doesn't know how to use his power doesn't feel comfy because I have a gun too. The gun in John Doe's holster is no risk to anyone. Once it gets handled unnecessarily ... that's when the problems can start. If you want to get into risk assessment, I'll go back to an earlier point. How many people with violent intent are going to volunteer their carry license or permit and offer the information that they are carrying? Probably not very many. How much "safer" is a police officer who bumbles handling an unfamiliar weapon than one who just has the person keep their hands on the steering wheel or otherwise in plain view? MORE IMPORTANTLY ... disarming someone of a gun breeds a false sense of security. Just because you take A gun from someone, why in the world would you simply assume they don't have another? Or several others? NO ONE IS MADE ANY SAFER BY ROUTINELY DISARMING LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WITHOUT A VERY GOOD REASON TO DO SO. Not even the cop who does it. One reason I am so excited about this issue is that I've been reading about similar things in Ohio on Glocktalk. The new license/permit to carry in Ohio is experiencing a lot of growing pains, and it's apparent that police offices in certain localities (e.g. near Cleveland) are making it worse by disarming virtually every person they encounter that has a gun, even if they present a legitimate license. It has nothing to do with "officer safety." It's just wrong. Whew. I feel a little better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktyler Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Being a LEO, Field Training officer and Firearms instructor I get asked the question "what do I do if I carrying and I get contacted by the police" Do what ever you are told to do by the officers. We train officer who are off duty or plain clothes to do the same. Follow the instructions of the responding officer. He/she doesn't know you from Adam, he has no idea what any ones intention is and is under enough stress already. Now is not the time to argue with the police. Just telling an officer you have CCW doens't mean you mean him no harm. I have arrested many documented gang bangers who were carrying legal and even had a CCW. I have had this happen to me while responding to calls before and I can tell you from experience as an officer I can not afford the luxtury of assuming what someone intent is. Cops get ambushed and killed at rate of about 9-14 officers a year. Just telling an officer you have CCW doens't mean you are meaning him no harm. If you haven't gone for a ride-a-long with a busy police department, I would highly encourage it. You will see things from a very different perspective. Having said all this, I am all for private carry laws and will protect the rights of citizen to do so. K Tyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I'm scheduled to do a ride-along this spring with our Sheriff's Office to compile, essentially, a news story. (I doubt they'd let me wear my gun... but I'll be THINKING about it, I'm sure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I can see it now Sig Lady, your on the ride-a-long and the officer you are with makes an arrest and you arrive at the jail.. The officer goes to put his gun in the trunk, and as he begins to close the hood, you say "wait, I have to store my gun too"! My advice is to ask about carrying your gun, before you get to the station,,, Although, I can tell you now what the answer would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Rhino, First off I seriously doubt you are going to hand me a firearm that I'm not used to seeing or handling. Most of the time that I see the CCW is when people are getting their license or detecting that unnatural bulge. I never assume that they have only one gun. I've had lots of people that were just fine until you say those 3 little words"you're under arrest" then they act like idiots. In the area I patrol we have the bangers, bikers and the militias. Lots of them have CCW and don't like authority. I'm sure you would rather feel a little put out by handing over your gun for a couple minutes while things are getting straightened out than have a couple 180's in you because you did something stupid. What you might think is a innocent little move like reaching for your wallet can get you dead. The gun flashes and a split second decision is made that can have some long lasting effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I see the point of view of the officers posting here. And, I see the point of view that Rhino is tyring to make. You know what...they are the same. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Rhino, Don't believe everything you read on Glocktalk. We have had CCW in PA for as long as I can remember. Rarely do we have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I doubt they'd EVER let me 'carry' on a ride-along... just a hunch. I know for sure I can't even carry in the SO's building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 SIGlady, just make sure the shotgun is unlocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 On the ride along. I agree most the time you will not be allowed to carry. My dad went on a ride along with an old freind on the CHP. One of the most exciting nights of his life. He was allowed to carry although i am sure it wasnt policy. But then again my dads buddy was one of the old fashion types that told me he honored out of state CCW even though it wasnt policy. Now going back to what Rhino said about the individuals safety. This comes from a PM we had back & forth. I dont know how we got to the point that the officers safety was more important than the private citizens. I belive the private citizens safety is what the officer is there to protect but I am afraid they are not teaching this in the academys today. You are in a car wreck where you and the other guy argue as to whose fault it is. The police show up. You offer you are carrying, the other guy remaining silent. The officer is disarming you. Meanwhile the other guy pulls his illegal gun and shoots both of you. See he had a car full of dope. He sure wasnt going to offer that he was carrying. Cant happen? Why is not your safety just as important? I dont belive an officer should be allowed to disarm a legally armed person unless they are suspected of a crime or committing a crime. Not to mention the fact of the safety issue with the officer removing a loaded gun from my holster or car. It just isnt going to happen. If he insists and allows me to unload the gun safely and hand it to him I might. To keep from having the possibility of that confrontation I will just not offer the fact i have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Rhino,Don't believe everything you read on Glocktalk. We have had CCW in PA for as long as I can remember. Rarely do we have a problem. Chriss, We have had it in Ohio since about Tuesday (give or take ). There are issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I see the point of view of the officers posting here. And, I see the point of view that Rhino is tyring to make.You know what...they are the same. Think about it. That's what makes this touchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Hah! I can carry on ridealongs with cops here in Indiana if they would let me ride along with them. It's not the gun the don't want in their car ... Flex makes an astute observation. I never liked him much, but he's got his finger on the button this time. Damn GMs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 It's funny how if you break down "astute" into its syllables you end up with "ass-toot." rhino, what are you trying to say?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 When state side I live in FL, yes the cradle of the CCW reform. I've had my permit since I was 23 or 24, been carrying daily for ten years. Now I work OCONUS and sorta LEO but don't really count, so I just carry in FL on my CWP. Anyway, CCW course, Police Academy, FLETC Instructor Course, IPSC and IDPA shooter since 98. Blah blah blah. Anyway, not to drift, but I have had a couple of instances of contact with LEO's when carrying. I always hand the LEO my permit when stopped. One time I was pretty sure I had no guns in the car but wanted to be sure in case he got jumpy, it was after midnight. He calmly looks at the permit and asks "where's the gun?" "I left it at home, we switched to my dad's car to come down here...." "Well it's not gonna do you any good there, you have the permit, carry the damned thing." I could hugged him. In general LEO in FL are pretty well informed and know a CWP holder has been through as many checks as they have. It might be that we have had CCW for about 20 years now so there is a generational thing with LEO, they know it and don't fear it as much. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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