Sac Law Man Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Outerlimits, perhaps there is more to the story, always was and still is legal in CA, to carry an unloaded gun in public thats registered to you, in the open, as opposed to concealed..Also, if you are on your own property, you can carry concealled or do whatever the heck you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Outerlimits, perhaps there is more to the story, always was and still is legal in CA, to carry an unloaded gun in public thats registered to you, in the open, as opposed to concealed..Also, if you are on your own property, you can carry concealled or do whatever the heck you want. nope, nothing more to the story...that was it, and it happened in east sacramento...i assume yer familiar with that neck of the woods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 An individual officer responding may want/be required by the department to secure all known weapons, for his own safety. In all, it sounds like things were handled well. This is a good point. We should not be quick to judge when we don't know all the facts or the department requirements for the officer. As Pat said, it sounds like it was handled professionally. That's the end of it. I've had similar events with Atlanta PD and the officers were also very professional and courtious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yep very familiar with the area..its unfortunate that happened to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Yep very familiar with the area..its unfortunate that happened to you..http://www.brianenos.com/forums/style_images/1/icon6.gif which is another reason i moved to a right wing enclave, only 10 mins from one of the largest ranges in the state. after retirement in 5 years, outta this state for good (look out you oregonians)!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traxman Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Outerlimits, perhaps there is more to the story, always was and still is legal in CA, to carry an unloaded gun in public thats registered to you, in the open, as opposed to concealed..Also, if you are on your own property, you can carry concealled or do whatever the heck you want. nope, nothing more to the story...that was it, and it happened in east sacramento...i assume yer familiar with that neck of the woods? outerlimits, I'm familiar with that neck of the woods. Sorry that happened. And I'll do my part to educate those of us on the other side... Afterall, you outshoot me with ease!!! traxman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I have experienced an LEO that thought he was going to draw down on me (FREAKED me OUT). Last year my daughter and I had run to the local corner store just a mile from our house. When I was stopped on a routine traffic violation, the officer thought I didn’t have my seat belt on (under my arm). When he approached our vehicle he informed me I was wearing my seat belt wrong and that he could ticket me for that. I was told at that time to give him my DL, insurance and I also gave him my CHL, that’s when things started to go wrong. He made a very swift move straight back from the car and unsnapped his holster and placed his hand on his gun at this point without thinking my hand went on the gun in the door. I was kind of freaked out about his actions and he at that time became very defensive and asked in a very abrupt voice where the gun was at. I told him and he moved quickly from my vehicle. He then returned ask me if I had been drinking and I informed him I don’t drink (8:30 am) Not sure were that came from!!!!! He seemed pissed about something gave me back my stuff and as he walked back to his car, snapped his holster and left. Just to let you all know I am a very easy and out going person I have never once had a run in with the law. That’s maybe because my brother was an 18 year veteran LEO with Little Rock, Ar PD and finished in Mission, Tx. So I was told how you should act with all law enforcement people. A lot of my friends are LEO. I KNOW that in the state of Texas your vehicles plates show that you are a CHL holder so why act like he did? My first reaction was to protect my daughter setting in the line of fire. I am sorry if that offends any of our great law enforment people on this Forum, that was not my intention but we have had some shoot first ask questions later happen in our area. Most LEO’s will respect the fact you are a CHL and LAW abiding citizen checked out by the FBI! But there are the few that believe they are the only ones that should posses a gun in public. I believe if I were an LEO I would probably ask anyone, CHL holder or not to please show me were his gun is at in a situation like Chris had. You have to remember more cops are killed at domestic violence calls then any other! It’s a tuff job and I thank you GUYS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 And way back then it was probably still legal to carry openly in Ca. When we lived there my Dad helped with a drug bust in a local bar. In fear for his and his families safety he applied for a CCW. He was denied. This was in LA. They told him to carry a gun openly which was legal. Hasnt always been bad in Ca. Dad moved us to Ky in 79. Corina, I think they were going to put Hagendaaz in place of Ben & jerry's. I suggested checking their background first since it was going in place of Ben & jerry's. Star spangled is a little high to resell in a store. 15.00 a pint. But I like what they are doing. The CA open carry law was changed because a highly visible group out of favor with the ruling class started to execrise that right. Care to guess what group was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Ummmm, Black Panthers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Ummmm, Black Panthers? Correct. They were carry shotguns to public meetings as a show of strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I would bet a million dollars you thought nobody would know the answer to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I would bet a million dollars you thought nobody would know the answer to that! Dude, I'm 24 and I knew the answer to that... now pay up, sucka!!! Mighta helped that I'm a Californian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I would bet a million dollars you thought nobody would know the answer to that! My point was that some rights exist only until they are exercised. Others must be preserved through regular exercise. Differentiating between the two can be an interesting exercise. Romor has it that the armed takeover of the Cornell administration building in the 60's is why most states now have laws against guns on school and college property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Actually, I maintain that rights exist regardless of what the state or its agents do to prevent us from exercising them. It may be a small distinction, but it's one of the few things that keeps me going hoping that things will get better some day. Our natural human rights are inviolable, even if we don't realize we have them. The problem is that governments and other bullies won't always allow us to exercise them without harsh penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 Rhino, you made a great point. I went to the Detroit International Auto Show yesterday. A group of 12 guys went including two LEO's- both were Michigan State Police Officers. At the end of the day, and after I got to know both of them a little better, I told them this story. One of the LEO's responded with indifference. The other was quite opionated regarding the matter. His response was basically," I will disarm anyone and everyone that I know to be carrying" I believe his opinion was based more out of fear and a desire to control the situation/environment. He is apparently worried that a legally licensed and carrying individual may somehow loss control of their emotions and do something stupid. He just doesn't trust anyone that is carrying- regardless of whether or not they are doing so legally. He was definetely of the mindset that only the police should carry. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Rhino, you made a great point. Thanks! The other was quite opionated regarding the matter. His response was basically," I will disarm anyone and everyone that I know to be carrying" I believe his opinion was based more out of fear and a desire to control the situation/environment. He is apparently worried that a legally licensed and carrying individual may somehow loss control of their emotions and do something stupid. He just doesn't trust anyone that is carrying- regardless of whether or not they are doing so legally. He was definetely of the mindset that only the police should carry. Ah, a perfect example of the problem at hand. I'm guessing the guy really can't comprehend how wrong his attitude and action are on a fundamental level. That, sadly, is another part of the problem. It's something I sometimes call "aggressive ignorance." I'm not sure any sort of education will help in those cases and I truly feel that people who are prone to abusing their authority in that manner and degree should definitely NOT be police officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Too bad you didn't ask him this: "If you show up at a call, and find that one of the people there is an off-duty officer carrying, would you disarm him/her? If not, why not?" And point out the background checks and training in many places are not much less, if at all for civilian CCW than police officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Because as a Police Officer, my job is to protect (the public) and serve. As a citizen with a CCW you carry in order to protect yourself. Another difference, all Police oficers go throguh mandated training, before getting hired and while on the job. While some CCW holders are well trained and continue to train, most only quallify yearly to maintian their permit. It also comes down to trust..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 So, there we are, two of us armed, with a third individual who has a) not gone through a background check before arriving in this predicament most likely precipitated the event c) if illegally armed, not likely to volunteer said information. How is my safety ensured by someone taking my sidearm? As for training, you'd be surprised. Maybe in Sacramento it's different, but anyone who goes through the State mandated class here, and shoots a single IDPA, IPSC or even PPC match a year, gets more ongoing training and practice than Detroit PD does. If training is the detemining factor, I'll gladly sign up for those classes that make LEO superior to us in skill, education and judgment. (Not to be snarky, just to point out training is the only difference, and often the LEO training isn't much.) If required, I'll turn over my sidearm, but don't expect me to be grateful for the "protection." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Bit ditto to Sweeney's post. I've shot with the best shooters whom are cops in Michigan. To this day, I would not trust any of them with a gun in a situation where my or my families life may be at risk. I would classify the vast majority of the officers here in Michigan to be around D class. I do agree with Sac Law Man whole heartedly on one point though. It does come down to trust. And I will trust me first and foremost above ANYONE else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It does come down to trust. And I will trust me first and foremost above ANYONE else. Agains folks...in case you missed it before...THAT is the issue. And, both sides are saying the same thing... Q: Who do your trust??? A (universally stated on this thread, by both LEO and CCW holder): I trust me. I am the one that wants to be in control of my safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Isn't it a little hypocritical for an LEO agency to issue someone a CCW (for instance my CCW is issued by the county sheriff), and say "we trust you to carry a gun in public". Yet then when they contact you to take your gun and thus imply "we don't trust you to carry a gun when you're in the presence of an LEO". I've only ever been pulled over once while carrying, I notified the officer of the fact that I was carrying, he asked where the gun was and left it at that, that is the approach I prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 On reflection...I think everybody has likely presented their perspective. I don't see any "new" information on the horizon. In the interest of hugs and kisses......I am going to close this now. If you have some a fresh perspective that you think the forum membership would benefit from, please send me a message. Kyle F. Administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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