Thinking of making the switch from LnL to 650XL

[kmaultsby]

Hello everyone as by the title I own a Hornady LnL progress with case feeder. I have loaded 9mm 40 and 45 ACP. After about a year I am not impressed. Here is just small list of problems I ran in to. Shell plate bolt constantly loosing up. I even added a lock washer. Not real problem for 9mm but for 40 the sizer die doesn’t always size the lower part of the case. Case feeder works great for 40 but for 9mm cases fall off the guide what waste. I loaded faster without the case feeder. I get a lot of stoppages. The Case feeder pivot block get loose, the primer feeding system breaks for no reason and on and on. What I would like to know from Dillion owners would I run in to these same problems with a Dillion 650XL?

[catskiner]

I have only had my xl650 for a few weeks and absolutely love it. I have had no issues in the 1500 rounds I have loaded its very simple to run and built like a tank compared to the LnL AP. When I was in the market for a progressive I almost went with a LnL until I saw one on display at my local cabelas.. I was not a bit impressed.. the press seemed like a sloppy POS.. Glad I went with the dillon.

[jmorris]

I have had two LNL's, pre and post EZ Ject, the 650 is a better machine.

[Pat Miles]

Switch from a LnL to a 650, what's to think about?

Just do it!

Pat

[basman]

I have never loaded on a LNL so I can't offer a personal opinion. However my neighbor has one and is always over my house and in my gungeon telling me how much he wants a 650 and how much better he believes it is over his LNL.

[levellinebrad]

I load on a Lee load master and have considered switching myself. I have read quite a few threads about primer issues and other problems with the 650 so I am reluctant to drop the coin. I will probably switch one day just to satisfy my curiosity as to whether or not it actually loads better ammo. So far the load master is working fine so it's just hard to justify.

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[Todd7446]

I have an LNL and after tinkering and TLC, it runs pretty well with case and bullet feeder. Don't know if I have one of the good ones or I've just been persistent.

That said, a 1050 left Phoenix yesterday bound for me.

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[moonman16]

The LNL is a good machine, if you do some Googling,

and watch some videos on the INITIAL PREP AND SET-UP,

of the LNL, especially those by Bill Morgan (a complete series)

"Hornady LNL-AP Press Set-Up Hints and Tricks"

You'll just be singing along making ammo.

The 650 is a nice machine, but don't let the BLUE CROWD BS YOU,

BLUE MACHINES have ISSUES TOO, it's the nature of machinery.

P.S.

I have BLUE, RED and GREEN machines.

Edited June 11, 2014 by moonman16

[ams30gts]

I went from a LNL AP to a XL650 and the XL650 is a MUCH better made machine. You will be happy.

[Jman]

I went from all Dillon to Hornady. Subjectivity being what it is...

...just get to the shooting.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Jman

[jester121]

I don't think switching to a Dillon is going to address your issues with .40 sizing, sounds like Glock bulged brass that you're going to need to address independently.

[DWFAN]

Skip the 650, get a 1050 in small primer. Keep the LnL for Large primer.

My LnL runs much better loading .45 ACP, I can do about 200 more an hour than 9mm. So, I have a 1050 for 9mm and .223, I use the LnL for .308, .45 and small batches of other things.

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

Glocked brass is the brass issue not a press issue. My 650 can't process it either it has todo with how low your die goes onto the brass. Most of these guys use a EGW or push through die on a single stage from what I've learned. I just sell it now I would rather sell it and buy non glocked brass. The shell plate loosening dillon at lest has a Allen screw on the Sid of the shaft to hold bolt tight

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[surgdog]

K,

I just went throught this very senario. I had tweaked the Hornady to the max and spent 50% of my time fiddling with it. I now have a 650 and there is no doubt that the case feeder is orders of magnitude better because there is no time the case is not supported in the Dillon on the way to the number 1 station.

It is taking me some time to get adjusted but when you get it in the groove the thing rocks and you can load without stopping except to replenish primers.

I'm very happy I made the change. Sold my LNL and casefeeder to defray the cost of the new setup to another reloader who already had one and he was happy to get it so it was a win win.

Go for it.

[Supermoto]

I don't know if I got a particularly bad LNL, but mine was constant problems. I don't think I ever got thru 100 rounds without having to stop. The only time my 650 has an issue is when the wrong brass gets mixed in. Every time I loaded on the LNL, I was aggravated by the time I finished. Every time I load on a 650, I'm always happy

[peterthefish]

I don't know if I got a particularly bad LNL, but mine was constant problems. I don't think I ever got thru 100 rounds without having to stop. The only time my 650 has an issue is when the wrong brass gets mixed in. Every time I loaded on the LNL, I was aggravated by the time I finished. Every time I load on a 650, I'm always happy

I have to stop every 100 rounds or so with mine too (to refill the primer tube!)

Maybe it's because I don't use a case feeder yet but I have yet to have a single non-operator caused issue loading with my LNL.

[Supermoto]

Maybe it's because I don't use a case feeder yet but I have yet to have a single non-operator caused issue loading with my LNL.

The case feeder was the cause of most of my issues, but not all of them. Sometimes the primer bar would not pick up the next primer

Edited June 12, 2014 by Supermoto

[Jaycwebb]

I've had my 650 with casefeeder for about 3 weeks now. I load 9mm to shoot my XDS, G19, and G34. It's the only reloaded I've ever used and I really like it.

[benos]

I've said this more than once... I can't tell you how many times I've heard, on the phone or in email - "The LnL is a pretty good press, but I never stop fiddling with its priming system."

I had one guy email me, exactly this, "Help me sell my LnL and I'll buy a 650 from you."

[Undrpsi]

I jumped ship from the Lee Pro 1000/Loadmaster series to Dillon. I have played with a friends LnL a while back. He has kept upgrading...he even has an AP now. If I remember correctly it had features I liked and didn't like. My buddy keeps his running very slick but I know he puts a lot of time into tweaking it. I can't say it's required...he's just 'that guy' who likes to tweak stuff. I had a Loadmaster that had a few major problems like your LnL. Yes, the Loadmaster is now...fixed...in most respects in the newer ones. Yes, I liked my Lee Pro 1000's very much. I had 2 (one for small and one for large primers). At the time it was very productive. I could roll out some good ammo with relatively few problems. After the Loadmaster, and all my Dillon buddies urging me on, I invested in my first RL550b.....and here's where it becomes relevant.....

My RL550's run almost 100% with only the occasional crap falling into the primer slide, wrong caliber mixed in, or unfound military crimp slowing me down. THAT'S the reason I invested in a 2nd RL550 and use them for 95% of my reloading. They work and operate with authority.....sounds goofy....but the Loadmaster, while a thick and heavy frame, just felt...wonky. The only thing I can compare it to is power steering on any big car from the 70's. From the 'knock arm' of the priming system to the lamp pull chains, it screams of being designed by a committee. Whereas the Dillon feels solid, well designed, and integrated. (these are my 550's...I don't want 650's). I have literally spent 2-3 DAYS filling the consumables and pulling the handle and rounds just kept coming out. I'm not saying I didn't stop and do maintenance or observe common sense and QA rounds as I went....I mean that unlike any other progressive I had tried up to that point the 550 ran like a top, gave me confidence, and, though much more expensive, gave the impression as worth every penny. I can't talk about the 650's. Two friends have them and the only thing I ever hear bad is the priming system. My 550s' priming system runs like a top...only me goofing up something has ever been a problem. I have a friend who half owns a 1050 and THAT is slick but overkill for me.

I guess bottom line...The Lee's worked but felt every bit the lower end that they occupy. Nothing wrong with that....lots of people can't afford much more and Lee dies are a baseline for the industry. The LnL I got to play with seemed good and felt every bit the mid-level press it is. Hornady is a leader in a lot of things so it's got good support (I guess) and the vast majority seem to run very well. Not only that but I'm pretty sure Hornady has more caliber options than Dillon. I know I use Lee dies for 3 or 4 calibers I load. There's also a thriving 3rd party parts market. The I think some of the bashing is made by press trolls or people who want to quote specs on the side of a box. If the LnL isn't doing it for you sell it (shouldn't be hard) and get the 650. I, personally, like the 550 manual progressive ten times more...but that's just me. I don't buy into just buying it because it was a Dillon....wait..OK..I did but only because my buddies swore by them....but it had to impress me. My experience with the 550's I've purchased has lived up to the hype. It's not perfect, I've asked for help on here, but it just works for me. YMMV. I tried to put all the pro's and con's for each up there...

Did you go look at the AP? I thought they fixed several problems when it came out??

Picture of my bench and the "Twins"....I also have my Lee Pro 1000s, Rock Crusher, and my Lee single stage from 1982 I still use but keep stowed.

twins by jayraxter1, on Flickr

Cheers!

Jay

Hello everyone as by the title I own a Hornady LnL progress with case feeder. I have loaded 9mm 40 and 45 ACP. After about a year I am not impressed. Here is just small list of problems I ran in to. Shell plate bolt constantly loosing up. I even added a lock washer. Not real problem for 9mm but for 40 the sizer die doesn’t always size the lower part of the case. Case feeder works great for 40 but for 9mm cases fall off the guide what waste. I loaded faster without the case feeder. I get a lot of stoppages. The Case feeder pivot block get loose, the primer feeding system breaks for no reason and on and on. What I would like to know from Dillion owners would I run in to these same problems with a Dillion 650XL?

[Undrpsi]

Oh...and I had a minor infatuation for Square Deal "B" press....had run a used one in between all this and purchased and used another a year or so ago. THAT is probably the best all around bang for your buck out there...as long as you load only pistol cartridges. It was so small I mounted it on a $20 work table from Harbor Freight and kept it in a bedroom closet when not needed. Then one I had loaded gobs (several .50 cal cans full) of 45 ACP. I know getting the biggest and overpowered is in our nature...well, for me....but...

Maybe getting one of these in your busiest caliber would be a good start? $379 from Dillon...man....sounds like I'm making a commercial but I'm just telling you what I've done and what I thought.

Cheers

Jay

Edited June 13, 2014 by Undrpsi

[427Cobra]

I have had my 650 for 3 months, I set it up per the instructions, after about 2k of use I have adjusted nothing, it simply works and works well, I don't keep any powder in it when not in use, I set it at 4.9 of CFE Pistol powder, and have checked it many times, but it's still dropping 4.9, with flat nose 9mm pills the OAL is very consistent, with round nose pills the OAL varies .005, at first my plan was to use the Dillon 9mm dies and later change them out, now I can't see any reason why, I didn't like the spent primer cup so I added one of those units from Egay, the live primer chute is kinda lame, but I'll probably live with it as is. The LNL has it's benefits, but IMHO it's not a Dillon xl650.

[Jaycwebb]

As a side note: the 650 was my first press ever. I've had to tinker with it here and there, and it's had a learning curve. But I've had the press for 3 weeks and I've rolled 800 rounds or so. I am producing about 250 an hour. I'm confident my numbers will improve over time.

[Dukecola]

Dillon makes good presses, but Google "Dillon 650 problems" and you'll find thousands of them. It is not immune to issues, primer explosions, powder spills, index advancing, etc, etc. I too had problems with my LnL, but all were set up issues. Once I got it working correctly, it works perfectly. I don't know why folks have case feeder issues, this was pretty much the only part I never had a problem with. BTW, there is a reason Dillion is known for great customer service, it;s because their customers needed to use it. I know BENOS sells the Dillon and of course he's going to push it, but please, it has it's issues as do all mechanical devices with so many moving parts. In most cases it's a timing issue.

[Undrpsi]

Dukecola....The OP has the LnL already and doesn't like it. He's aware of the problems and stated he'd found the solutions (like you did) but was unhappy and wanted to compare it. Nobody really bashed your LnL as far as I can see so that whole "...BTW, there is a reason Dillion is known for great customer service, it;s because their customers needed to use it..." comment's a little 'troll-y' don't ya think? OH..and I've had two 550's and while I've had to consult on here a few times to get a clearer understanding of what I did wrong. I've never had anything I couldn't fix. Unlike the custom parts I had to make at work for my LoadMaster.

Brian does sell them and stuff like books and Slide Glide (which I flipping love)...this is HIS site dude....if he wants to push the purple version that's his call. Going on a fan site for a product then kind of bashing it while making veiled comments about needing service is what you're NOT supposed to do. Why make a comment about the man who owns the site. Do people come to your house and make fun of your couch?...another semi-troll-y comment.

Not only that but I like the 550 OVER the 650...stated that. It DOES have problems...stated that. Costs more...stated that. If the LnL does it for you it's a quality name brand press you should keep it...stated that. Matter of fact I just looked over the comments and EXCEPT FOR THE OP WHO OWNS ONE nobody really had anything more negative to say about the LnL than they did about any other platform.

I got this confused look because if you were trying to make a point...you made a point that no one else denies....This happens a lot on some forums. People restating the obvious so their choice seems better and your's doesn't. I read your other posts and I get what you're saying but I don't understand why you jumped out front answering comments no one made......

I still use Lee products too....should I get pissy cause people ding on my flavor of Red?

What-evs....

Jay

Dillon makes good presses, but Google "Dillon 650 problems" and you'll find thousands of them. It is not immune to issues, primer explosions, powder spills, index advancing, etc, etc. I too had problems with my LnL, but all were set up issues. Once I got it working correctly, it works perfectly. I don't know why folks have case feeder issues, this was pretty much the only part I never had a problem with. I know BENOS sells the Dillon and of course he's going to push it, but please, it has it's issues as do all mechanical devices with so many moving parts. In most cases it's a timing issue.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Undrpsi