New Rule Book

[Sac Law Man]

I think the new holster requirements are too strict and unnecessary..why didnt they just update the holster list..If you look at the stats of the big matches you can see what shooters are wearing. Im gunna guess that 60-70% of the holsters shooters have used are now illegal. At this years Nats, 10% used the Comp Tac locking paddel alone, including yours truly..

To say you cannot not see ANY light through the belt loops is asking for trouble..and the gun has to be within 3/4 inch of your body..I can see the range Nazi now with his/her ruler..and guess what, IDPA is recommending a FTDR for a breech of these rules.

IDPA HQ should of made it very clear to companies that sent in holsters to be approved, and said..This is the holster we have approved, any deviaiton from this design will force us to place any holster your company makes or designs on the non approved holster list.

I can see clubs breaking away from the rulebook (at the local level) and allowing their shooters, (most of whom are avg shooters just looking to have fun, and not caring about winning) to continue to use what they want. Hopefully this doesn't happen, but IDPA is a sport.

And if IDPA's excuse is, those products were designed for competiton purposes,then I guess they should start banning certain guns..Glock 34/35...They are touted as PRACTICAL/TACTICAL..designed with the competitor in mind

[Matthew_Mink]

FWIW, I just double-checked all my gear for SSP and its still legal.  Blade-Tech with Tek-Lok is still legal, holsters and mag carriers.

Hey Matt:

I thought my Tek-lok Blade-Tech was going to be OK too, right up until I got to the part on p. 31 where it says, "must hold the firearm positioned on the body so an object of 3/4" width cannot pass between the shooter's body and the inside of the firearm when the shooter is standing straight and upright."

If I understand and am applying this rule correctly, my Blade-Tech (for revolver) certainly appears to fail the test. Maybe your rig holds your CZ pistol tucked in closer to your side and it's OK to use, but if you haven't checked to be sure, you might want to make sure before your next match.

Mike, I just checked again, and it appears that it will still be ok. I've got less than 1/2" of clearance between me and the grips. I guess that's where they are measuring the 3/4" clearance at. I'm also guessing that a lot of different body types are going to get away with things on holsters that other people can't. I see what they are trying to do with the holsters, but I think they went a little bit anal trying for real world carry holsters. What's really funny is the fact I used to carry with an Uncle Mike's holster. I used the darn thing for years, its a great carry holster. It's just not legal for IDPA.

The following sentence shouldn't even be able to be said. "It's great for carry, its just not legal for IDPA."

[Mark Perez]

Sac Law Man

Speaking as one who has performed equipment checks at the last Az State and regional matches - it is darn near impossible to know what every legal holster from the former approved list looks like , without a playbook.

It was easier to recognize illegal gear than to sort through all the manufacture catalogs or websites and I try to keep abreast of these things.

The new holster guidelines will be make it easier for me to determine what's legal or not - basically the same criteria I used with the old LGB.

fwiw ,

There was one guy who came up to be checked wearing a untucked polo shirt and jeans - I say "where's your stuff?"

He pulls his shirt up a little bit and displays a Glock in a TS/UCR rig - I never would have seen it otherwise.

It's only been about 24 hours since the rules came out - give them a chance to be shaken out at a match before we disregard them all together.

my 2 cents

Mark

[Mark Perez]

What's really funny is the fact I used to carry with an Uncle Mike's holster. I used the darn thing for years, its a great carry holster.

Mathew Mink

Matt ,

My opinion of the UM was completely opposite of yours !

For me - it stuck out to far from the belt line for a concealed carry rig .

Mark

[Gun Phan]

I got a solution!

Take all our illegal equipments and shoot IPSC/USPSA . It's much more fun.

I can always depend on IDPA to make me spend more money to buy guns and equipments (not always a bad idea: more guns means more toys ).

It always make me laugh after I get through an IDPA match. Are you really going to shoot 1-1-2-1-1 when you got three person trying to attack you? How about shootin the meanest looking muther f!1#kr first and then the next one that haven't ran yet!

[Precision40]

We saw lots of equipment at the Nationals this year that barely held magazines or speedloaders in place. We tried to make the rules easier for the Safety Officers to enforce. It's tough for us to try to keep up with all the variations of holsters, mag pouches, etc. and that's our business. It's impossible for most of the Safety Officers who have full time jobs not in the firearms industry.

Yeah so the thing to do is come up with a completely new set of equipment rules because some people at the Natls were using equipment that was "barely legal?" It's either legal or illegal, not "barely legal"

I can say I'm not going to spend $50 for a new holster on pricipal simply because someone at the nationals had equipment was which was "barely legal." The SO's in that situation should have corrected the equipment violations then and there.

ESR Divison? Why not raise the barrel length back to 5" and get some of the USPSA guys to cross-over? 165pf in a 4" barrel? Thanks, but no thanks.

[f250sd]

After almost two years in IDPA, I wished for a new rule book to clear things up, not screw it up even more, The new holster rule is just lame, most people will now not know for sure if their holster is legal or not until after showing up to a major match, and then it will be up to the measurments, eye-sight and interpitation of some-one you may be competing with. whats good somewhere may earn you a FTDR elsewhere. I guess I may be forced to look into some of the local USPSA clubs, and say farewell to IDPA.

[matto]

The new holster rules have me fuming!

I've got a Comp-tac holster for everyone of my guns. For years they were honkey dorey, and now they are illegal at the drop of a hat? What kind of way is that to treat you customers. This cannot stand. IDPA had better hit the brakes on this one.

I'm going to shoot the Winter Nationals next month. What am I supposed to do? Local gun shops don't carry quality gear. Should I order every f-ing holster under the sun so I can see if one leagaly fits my body and return the rest?

The 3/4" inch between the body and gun rule was written by people who eat too much southern cooking. The more personal padding you have the fewer gaps there will be.

Time to quite the gym - I've got to stay competetive.

[vincent]

How do you think those of us who have two sets of Comp-Tac gear for their guns (primary and backup) feel. Not even counting my wheelgun gear. At least I only have one of those.

---

The things that I like about the updated rulebook:

-Better organized.

-Clarified that you don't have to duck 100% behind cover to reload.

-Clarified that if your Glock 34 goes down at a match that finishing up with your Glock 26 is OK. I would still rather see a different word than "type".

-Clarified that both Glock factory slide releases and magazine releases are legal on all Glock models.

-Defined an extended and enlarged magazine release button.

-Added a weight limit to SSP.

---

There are a number of things I don't like but since IDPA is "is geared toward the new or average shooter", it's not really for me anyway. Luckily there are other games to play where good shooters can flourish.

[Thomas Moore]

i still see they haven't adopted a grand master or professional class.

[Thomas Moore]

as i'm reading the rule book i see the idpa has adopted a new division, enhanced service revolver. let me see if i under stand this correctly.

i have a s&w model 610 it has a 4in barrel and uses full moon clips with rimed cases, because of this i'm forced to shoot in the ESR correct?

if this is true i'll be competing against the 8 shot revolver and therefore i feel won't be competitive.

please let me know if i have read this incorrectly.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

as i'm reading the rule book i see the idpa has adopted a new division, enhanced service revolver. let me see if i under stand this correctly.

i have a s&w model 610 it has a 4in barrel and uses full moon clips with rimed cases, because of this i'm forced to shoot in the ESR correct?

if this is true i'll be competing against the 8 shot revolver and therefore i feel won't be competitive.

please let me know if i have read this incorrectly.

Your 610m like mine, is currently not eligable in any IDPA division. It is above the weight limit.

Rgeards,

[Ted Murphy]

Your 610m like mine, is currently not eligable in any IDPA division. It is above the weight limit.

There is a note further up in this thread where Joyce says the weight limits are beging re-evaluated.

[Bones]

I think the new Revolver rules are refreshing - fix the weight limit and be done with it. Seven & Eight shot - O.K., let's try it.

If you bought your IDPA equipment based soley on a competitive equipment edge - you either skipped the intro to the older rule books and/or made a strategic error. The old rules created the arms race & the new rules attempt to fix that. If your strategy is to chase the edge of the rules you're always going to to have to adapt to new ones - and there will always be new ones.

I guess I'm part of the vocal minority - or perhaps a silent majority.

Having said that, why don't we wait and collect some data to dilute the currently concentrated opinions? Our prognostication skills are clearly not good or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Let's look at membership and division participation populations in a year and then judge.

Bill, Joyce, et al - Thanks. Change will always be resisted. Thanks for your support and continued efforts.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Your 610m like mine, is currently not eligable in any IDPA division.  It is above the weight limit.

There is a note further up in this thread where Joyce says the weight limits are beging re-evaluated.

NOTE, I said "currently". People can justify this any way they wish. I have a major match to shoot in February and have to scramble for new gear. At least when they shafted the 5" revolver guys, they gave them some warning.

I have used a 610 or a 625 for 5 years and now all of a sudden I can't because not enough attention was payed to revolver division shooters. Thos that "play" in revolver are one thing. Those of us that have it as our main carry and competition firearms were left in the wings. It really makes me think about where and what I want to shoot.

The holster issue is another thing but I will let those more affected than I am discuss that. I have IWB holsters for my carry firearms that will work just fine.

BTW, try shooting a 250 round match with a 325PD and 165 power factor loads. That is currently IDPA legal. Maybe I will do it to see if I can wear it out in one match.

IDPA did a great disservice to the regular revolver shooters for the benefit of a few.

Regards,

[Bones]

RGS - I have a great deal of respect for you but I have to ask - what rounds did you intend to use in your 325 when you defended your life and liberty with it?

[EricBudd]

The 325 with full power loads is fine for real-life where the average gun fight is less than 6 rounds. Hell, even 12 rounds of 45 out of 20oz gun is ok if the bad guys are real.

Shooting 150-250 rounds in a match/pratice session is a lot less fun. :-(

[Bruce]

3/4" between gun and body? Did they change the rule about shooting from concealed carry? If it is concealed, it is concealed...no? Maybe the way to determine the serious gamers from the not-so-serious gamers will be those with carry-side love handles, and those without?

One of the grand ironies of life (in my experience, at least) is that rule books grow weirder the longer an organization is in place. Kinda like the IRS...started out with some rules in a book and now you can't move the regs with a single forklift...and no one understands them. I have always chalked it up to you have a board, or group of people who are charged with making rules---and they somehow feel as though they must, or they won't get to, so, they do.

[Sac Law Man]

Mark Perez, your posts are always respected..The new holster rules do make it easier for the R/O, AR/O and HQ to enforce the rules, but from the competitors stand point they are very restrictive. Many of us bought holsters in the past becasue they were advertised as IDPA legal....The rest of the rulebook looks good, this was my only issue, I still have two holsters that conform, my Comp Tac mag holders do not, but my old one does..

[geezer-lock]

I have to say that I am generally pleased with the overall result but it appears that we are in for a new round of pain for the revolver classes

I looked back at the thread started by Mark Perez titled “What would you do to improve IDPA” and I believe that most of the issues I raised are addressed in the new book. I do think that in order to resolve new things like the weight issue in the revolver classes and some of the remaining questions about holsters that HQ needs to publish and maintain an “Addendum” and keep that document in the rules area of the web site. I intend to suggest that directly to IDPA HQ.

geezer

[Shoepop]

Brian, your question on the 686 38 super is moot. Since they are now going to measure barrel length from the face of the cylinder. I measured my 686 super last night it's over 4". There are a lot of revolvers now worthless for IDPA. I suggest other shooters measure their revolvers if they plan on staying in IDPA. Who ever came up with that goodie sure is not familiar on how to measure revolver barrels. AND we have to RECLASSIFY ! They are making members who chose to shoot revolvers throw up and THEN eat it.

[GRD]

I don't know anything about wheelguns, but from a single-stack perspective, the mag pouch 50% thing is also not so good. I don't have a single pouch that meets the criteria...and these are my carry pouches!

My holsters may or may not. SooperHooper? Unknown.

- Gabe

[JasonK]

There was one guy who came up to be checked wearing a untucked polo shirt and jeans - I say "where's your stuff?"

He pulls his shirt up a little bit and displays a Glock in a TS/UCR rig - I never would have seen it otherwise.

Mark Perez voiced what I have thought for some time. The way to make the holster/concealment issue "real world" is to make it REAL WORLD. I personally don't care if you want to carry Dirty Harry's revolver if the little old lady across the street can't see it, isn't it concealed? Now if you have to wear a duster to get the job done fine. I don't see many people who are going to compete in a duster but if that's how they want to carry a gun who am I to judge.

Jason's holster and garment approval rule:

Get three shooters at random and form a judging panel.

Shooters perform a slow 360 degree turn. Can you tell they are carrying a gun? If not then they pass.

Now that probably won't happen but wouldn't it make sense and be easy to determine?

JK

[David Olhasso]

So according to the new rules, on page 33, item 1F, it states that mag holders must "Hold the magazine in a verticle (90 to the ground) position on the belt, no forward or rear cant."

News flash -- MANY OF THE PREMIUM LEATHER DOUBLE MAGAZINE HOLDERS DO NOT POSITION THE MAGAZINES EVEN CLOSE TO 90 DEGREES VERTICAL!!

I really wonder if the people who wrote this book ever actually carry a gun or understand that what is concealable for one, sticks out like a sore thumb for another.

Check out:

Bullman Gunleather

a) http://www.bulmangunleather.com/qmf.html

http://www.bulmangunleather.com/qdm.html

c) http://www.bulmangunleather.com/dmp.html

Mitch Rosen

a) http://www.mitchrosen.com/product_line/acc...ccessories.html

DeSantis

a) http://www.desantisholster.com/a1p.html

need I go on?

[Ted Murphy]

Guys about the weight limits for SSR

Really, honestly, don't sweat them right now. Odds are this will be corrected within the week.

I'm suprised people havent' noticed the SSP weight limit yet though, the Stainless Sig shooters might end up as ESP shooters now.

Ted