New Rule Book

[Sgtsvi]

I would like to add my response to this thread. I do not, nor will I ever plan on shooting a revolver in IDPA. I dont give a damn about the rules regarding wheelguns in the game since I have no aspiration of shooting one. I do have serious issues with my Comp tac holsters and mag pouches being deemed illegal by the BOD. When another shooter called the HQ and asked for an example of a legal holster, he received no answer. I have quite a bit of money tied up in holsters and mag pouches for my SV and glock. The shooters on my team are in the same boat. Gregg from comp tac was called and he said that if he makes the mag carriers longer, they will be considered for competition only, still illegal. I thought IDPA was not an equipment race and a shoot what you carry game. I guess I should tell my Deputies that I have turned on to Comp tac to quit carrying them off duty because they are not suitable for everyday carry.

Looks like I got into USPSA at the right time. I will just spend my money shooting more USPSA matches and not spend the money in IDPA. I average about 7 major matches a year in IDPA. The range fees and hotel/meal expenses will be better spent with another sport. I will just shoot the local club matches with my illegal,evil, gamer gear for fun and save my $$ for dedication to my new game.

Sorry for the rant, I am just a little P.O.'d right now.

Dave

[MikeyG23]

Sorry for the rant, I am just a little P.O.'d right now.

Dave

Give 'em h*ll Dave !!

[shred]

Now buying previously-legal Left-Handed Kydex gear...

[marmot452]

SSR had a lot of real and perceived issues.  I thought HQ did a nice job of trying to give SSR a fix without competely "dissing" the moongunners.

The road to ruin is paved with good intentions. I'm going to have to disagree that this is a "nice" fix. We now have a gamer revolver division where the 8 shot custom revolver will dominate and an entry level division that uses speedloaders. I just hope SSR will draw new shooters in. I'm hopeful but not betting money on it.

Since we're airing our opinions -- what was the "issue" with two speedloaders in front and one behind the holster? Anybody out there in the BOD actually carry a revolver? Try sitting on two speedloader holders next to your L4-L5 vertebrae! What in the name of Zeus' balls is that one about!

And what the heck is a "tension device that positively locks" the speedloader/moon clip in the carrier? Are the spring steel holder legal? Specific holsters are cited but nada about revolver ammo carriers.

Gotta find some IPSC and ICORE shooters to dump my gear on!

[Sgtsvi]

I plan on it Mikey. I think that Bill and Joyce are going to recieve a bunch of email from us Dallas shooters voicing our displeasure with the equipment rules change that affect all of us. We have all used Greggs products because it is the best and he supports and shoots this game. Like I said, I dont care if you want to make a division for wheelguns shooting CCI CB caps. I dont own a revolver (unless you count my Colt SA army made in 1899), nor do I really want one. I wonder if Bill is coming out with a new line of Wilson combat holsters that will be the only ones legal for this game.

Dave

[MikeyG23]

I plan on it Mikey. I think that Bill and Joyce are going to recieve a bunch of email from us Dallas shooters voicing our displeasure with the equipment rules change that affect all of us. We have all used Greggs products because it is the best and he supports and shoots this game. Like I said, I dont care if you want to make a division for wheelguns shooting CCI CB caps. I dont own a revolver (unless you count my Colt SA army made in 1899), nor do I really want one. I wonder if Bill is coming out with a new line of Wilson combat holsters that will be the only ones legal for this game.

Dave

Let's fire up the e-mails !!

[Carmoney]

Joyce Wilson, I notice on my screen that you are tuned in to this topic right now.

In addition to the lively debate on this forum, the revolver issues are also being discussed on the unofficial IDPA forum, as well as the Smith & Wesson forum.

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on all of this.

Mike

[Sgtsvi]

Joyce,

I would also like to know the reason behind this decision. I dont whine at matches and argue with SO's. I play by the rules and get very few PE's, mostly from brain pharts and not trying to game a stage. There is about 30 hard working people in Dallas that I work with that are talking about giving up on, or reducing the money they spend on IDPA. We spent hard earned money for equipment that fell within the rules at the time. Now we are being told that we should throw our comp tacs in a drawer with the fobus's and uncle mikes holsters that we originall bought when we first started this sport. I dont think Gregg at comp tac is going to buy our equipment back at any time soon.

Dave

A18131

[marmot452]

I'm going to have to agree with some the other posts here. Now may be the time to scale back on what I spend on IDPA. Hard as it is for me to admit, since I am a dyed-in-the-wool IDPA revolver fan - but maybe it was providence that my first USPSA membership card arrived last week. I've got deep philosophical disagreements with the gamey side of ipsc - but at least all of my equipment is still legal. HQ seems to want to kill off revolver. Careful what you wish for.

[MikeyG23]

Joyce,

I would also like to know the reason behind this decision. I dont whine at matches and argue with SO's. I play by the rules and get very few PE's, mostly from brain pharts and not trying to game a stage. There is about 30 hard working people in Dallas that I work with that are talking about giving up on, or reducing the money they spend on IDPA. We spent hard earned money for equipment that fell within the rules at the time. Now we are being told that we should throw our comp tacs in a drawer with the fobus's and uncle mikes holsters that we originall bought when we first started this sport. I dont think Gregg at comp tac is going to buy our equipment back at any time soon.

Dave

A18131

What Dave said.....

[Joyce Wilson]

Guys,

I'll be the very first to admit that I know absolutely nothing about revolvers. I certainly didn't catch anything wrong about the weight limit because of my first statement. Bill thought he had picked out the heaviest practical revolver to weigh to set this limit. I just brought all of the comments on this to his attention and he didn't realize that the 625, 610 or 627 were over that limit. We're in the process of doing some research right now. (It's 6:15 and I'm still here at work). There may even be a couple of other things that we missed. I hope not too many. We even had the thing professionally proof read this time. I don't know what the correction will be, but keep watching. We'll announce it on the website.

Thanks for your patience.

Joyce Wilson

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I don't know what the correction will be, but keep watching.  We'll announce it on the website.

Thanks for your patience.

Joyce Wilson

Thanks for jumping in Joyce.

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store...&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store...&sw_activeTab=1

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store...&sw_activeTab=1

Here's some research to help.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I fear that different MD's will have different interpretations of the holster rules. My Blade-Tech holster that I have been shooting my Glock from for several years has a tiny amount of light visible through the belt loop if you kneel down and look just right. Is this holster going to be OK some places and illegal others? Plus I think I will have to buy all new mag pouches.

Plus the revolver rules are horrible. This is coming from a speedloader shooter. Does any body know of ANY speedloader holders that will be legal?

marmot, I will probably see you at the range.

Bill Nesbitt

[Joyce Wilson]

One more thing for the record.

I don't visit any of the boards very often because of a couple reasons: first, I really don't have the time, and second, it becomes difficult on occassion to not be offended by some of the personal slams at Bill.

As to the changes in the holster/ammo carrier criteria, NONE of the changes were made for the profit of Wilson Combat. They were made because too many shooters pushed the envelope on carry equipment. We saw lots of equipment at the Nationals this year that barely held magazines or speedloaders in place. We tried to make the rules easier for the Safety Officers to enforce. It's tough for us to try to keep up with all the variations of holsters, mag pouches, etc. and that's our business. It's impossible for most of the Safety Officers who have full time jobs not in the firearms industry.

And lastly, the reason that I don't visit the boards more is that I've seen posts that I've made show up on other boards with the context twisted. I don't mind if people quote me (obviously they are going to no matter what), just please quote me entirely, not selectively.

Thanks,

Joyce

[Mark Perez]

this one is from Safariland for a j frame - don't know if they still make 'em for K/L frames.

Mark

[Tom Mainus]

Hi everybody,

I usually do not post on the IDPA page because I am an IPSC shooter mainly but I have just started to have the oppurtunity to shoot idpa. Had the pleasure of shooting with Bill Nesbitt at Area 5 this year. I shoot exclusively revolver in IPSC. I have a blast with it, and when a new IDPA club opened here in WI, i started to try it with my revolver. (it was the only gun I had that qualified for idpa) I liked it, to me trigger time is trigger time. I am starting to help out at the club with the usual things that need to be done on match day. I was scheduled to take my SO class on the 15th of Jan. But with the new rule changes in revolver I think I will have to cancel. I have a 4" 625 that I use for IDPA. The power factor thing does not bother me because that is what I shoot for IPSC. I don't even mind having to shoot against 7 and 8 shots in the new ESR? That would be I wouldn't mind but my gun and all of my gear no longer qualify. How can a national organization like IDPA overlook the weight issue of the most popular gun its members use for revolver? How can they outlaw all of the holsters that most of their members have been using? Somebody had their head up their a*& when they approved this. Welcome to the equipment race IDPA. I Look forward to our revlover numbers going up at our next IPSC match because of these decisions.

Tom Mainus L-2448

A19473

[revchuck]

Mark - Yeah, they do. Any color you want, as long as it's black.

I admit to having speeded through the rulebook when I read it, but I don't remember seeing the proscription against modifying them. These holders are only available for 1-3/4" belts; if I could get away with stitching the bottoms to make them fit my 1-1/2" belts, they'd work.

[Mark Perez]

Seems they levelled the playing field a bit more that's all. 

If they are truly going to allow up to 8-shot revolvers in ESR then I seriously question how level the playing field will be for guys using a 625.

Why trade one goofy situation for another? More divisions are not the answer either. They should have kept one division and allowed for machining cylinders to accept moon clips, IMHO.

Either way, I'll continue to shoot whatever I have on hand at any given time. I'll drag out the Model 10 or 686 as well as the 625's.

I hope you're right, Ted, and it brings out more shooters.

8 or 6 rd in ESR ?

What's the big deal ??

Given an 18 rd string of fire - there both going to have to reload twice - right?

Mark

[hopalong]

I have not read the rule book on line, membership expired and will get one with re-upping.

Here is a simple fix for what was thought a problem for the 625.

Make cartridges power factor specific per caliber.... example

go to Jim Bobs gun store... buy 1 box winchester 1 box federal 1 box cci 1 box remington bullets.... shoot 5 of each through the chronograph and come up with an average power factor per caliber and make that cut and dry per caliber then it is up to the shooters to shoot what they want.

This will also cause trouble among 357/38 spl guns so what do there? require multi caliber guns to shoot the stronger of the two 686 shoots 357, 610 shoots 10 MM ect.

This is slight work for the folks at HQ but would make for the option of shooters to use the gun of choice, the biggest thing between the guy that goes for equipment "advantage" is they are not willing to invest in the time to get good with the "good guns" 686 vs. 625

(sorry but that is just what it is)

Then once you have caliber specific Power factors lump them all back together in 1 revolver divison, I would have no problem shooting my 646 against a 627 or 625, but would not have any way.

Hopalong

[Ted Murphy]

  I'm going to have to disagree that this is a "nice" fix.

Again I ask, would you have been happier if they banned moonguns outright? Everyone wants to bitch about ESR but is it really worsethan the alternative?

Since we're airing our opinions -- what was the "issue" with two speedloaders in front and one behind the holster? 

What I had heard is that too many people had the 2nd speedloader so far in front that it was touching the belt buckle, which wasn't very concealable. Since people liked to argue with SO's about placement of the second one and wouldn't run their holders so they were nice and tight into the holster, the simpler solution was to eliminate the problem.

And what the heck is a "tension device that positively locks" the speedloader/moon clip in the carrier?  Are the spring steel holder legal?

You got me there, trying to figure out that one too.

!

[Bill Nesbitt]

[

What's the big deal ??

Given an 18 rd string of fire - there both going to have to reload twice - right?

Mark

Yeah, but I've seen enough 16 round stages to make a difference.

Bill Nesbitt

[Ted Murphy]

Make cartridges power factor specific per caliber.... example

Bunch of us proposed that for many years. Would have been way cool.

Ted

[Ted Murphy]

Yeah, but I've seen enough 16 round stages to make a difference.

Bill Nesbitt

FWIW, there would have been 2 extra reloads for a six shooter at nats, though the 8 shooter would have had to retain ammo during the standards, which is far from a wash.

Ted

[Mark Perez]

Mark - Yeah, they do.  Any color you want, as long as it's black.

I admit to having speeded through the rulebook when I read it, but I don't remember seeing the proscription against modifying them.  These holders are only available for 1-3/4" belts; if I could get away with stitching the bottoms to make them fit my 1-1/2" belts, they'd work.

FWIW ,

I used to carry 2 of the Split 6 at the same position that I now carry a spare

mag(s) - back in the day.

Right behind the non-dom centerline.

and I just sold my 66 and related gear too

Mark

[Sgtsvi]

One more thing for the record.

I don't visit any of the boards very often because of a couple reasons: first, I really don't have the time, and second, it becomes difficult on occassion to not be offended by some of the personal slams at Bill.

As to the changes in the holster/ammo carrier criteria, NONE of the changes were made for the profit of Wilson Combat. They were made because too many shooters pushed the envelope on carry equipment. We saw lots of equipment at the Nationals this year that barely held magazines or speedloaders in place. We tried to make the rules easier for the Safety Officers to enforce. It's tough for us to try to keep up with all the variations of holsters, mag pouches, etc. and that's our business. It's impossible for most of the Safety Officers who have full time jobs not in the firearms industry.

And lastly, the reason that I don't visit the boards more is that I've seen posts that I've made show up on other boards with the context twisted. I don't mind if people quote me (obviously they are going to no matter what), just please quote me entirely, not selectively.

Thanks,

Joyce

Joyce,

I mean no offense toward you and Bill. I do not think the majority of shooters at the nats should be punished by what a few do with their gear. Why didnt someone address their equipment as unsafe during the match. As I said before, I will take my hard earned money somewhere else, even though you all probably dont care. But, you might one day care when alot of shooters do as I do. I started shooting IDPA two years ago and was instantly hooked. Now I feel like you guys have let me down with little or no regard to the amount of money I have already invested in the same equipment that alot of the top shooters in the country told me to buy. I will end my rant and let you and Bill go about your business.

Dave