Want to Try 3-Gun and Other "Games" but Have Concerns about Ph

[Nalapombu]

Hey all,

I've always wanted to participate in some of the gun games. IDPA and 3-Gun to name a couple. I really like the thought of being able to use all the kinds of firearms in a single match. Up until a year or so ago I had never lived in a place that had this stuff close enough to take advantage of. Now that I am in Houston, Texas, I know there are lots of places that host these kinds of matches frequently. I have concerns about my physical ability and whether they'd let me participate.

I have a back deformity where it is fused solid from top to bottom. It severely limits my mobility. I can walk, but I CANNOT RUN. I haven't been able to do that in over 20 years. If you look at me walking I appear kinda "hunched" over in my upper back. I can look ahead, but cannot look up. For instance, I cannot simply stand and look at the moon. I also have limited mobility in my neck from side to side. I can drive and look to my side, but not fast. I also can NOT go prone at any time, not gonna happen.

Now, I am not wanting to win anything, I just want to try and participate. I am wondering if they would let me because of my conditions. I know they have to be worried about safety, I am totally safe. Nothing in my condition would make me inherently unsafe. The thing is that I see stages where shooters have to crouch way down and shoot through a barrel or a tube at a target 100 yards down range or shoot prone at long range targets. I can never do those things. If I got to a stage like that, would they simply let me shoot them standing up like I normally would or would they tell me that since I can't shoot the stages exactly like they are supposed to be shot I cannot shoot the stage or participate?

Can you tell me how this would work for me, if at all and give some opinions on what it would be like for me?

Thanks for your time.

Nalajr

[Sarge]

Don't know about 3gun but in a USPSA pistol match a shooter can take a special penalty if they can not perform a certain task or movement such as crouching or going prone. The only problem is that some targets are going to be impossible to engage. But you would certainly be welcome to shoot in a match. I have shot with some "older" guys who more or less shoot a stage the best they can and take the misses and not worry about it. Safety first. Like you said, if you are safe you are welcome!

I can't imagine a 3gun match not letting a shooter participate in a condition you describe. You would end up with a ton of misses and FTE's probably but you would still have fun!

[Flatland Shooter]

You already meet the requirements. You are willing to be safe and you want to join in on the fun.

The USPSA pistol matches of my youth included lot of shooting prone, kneeling followed by standing up and other such nonsense. No more. I do not remember the last local match that required the shooter go prone. As for running, my version of running is what most folks consider to be a nice casual walk. But I'm still having fun.

We now see a lot more seasoned individuals (seniors?) shooting our matches. And rather than run them off, our stage designers and match directors take some of their limitations into account. As Sarge pointed out, there are provisions in the rules to handle the stage where the written stage briefing "requires" something that is not within your capabilities,

As a fellow Houston area shooter, I've shot at most of the area clubs and I think that any of the local pistol matches will fit the bill.

If I can answer any questions just give me a shout. Hope to meet you out there.

Bill

[alma]

As long as you are safe you should be able to play. Some of the 3 gun matches get a little crazy with positions so you might focus on USPSA/IDPA initially. You can always dropping by a 3 gun match as well to get a feel for the physical requirements which can vary greatly from one club to the next and even from stage to stage. I am confident that accommodations can be made to help you where necessary.

Also, you should try to find a Steel Challenge match in your area. Most stages require no movement but it is still a lot of fun to shoot. There is much you can learn from the skills stressed by various stages. They seem simple on the surface but are amazingly complex to master.

Edited May 22, 2014 by alma

[usmc90]

Any club who would not let you participate based on your physical abilities would also be in violation of (if not mistaken) "The Americans with Disabilities Act".. someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong !

[blairmckenzie1]

i have a hard time believing that any club would not allow you to participate in anyway. there are rules in place to make allowances for shooters with physical issues. i would much rather see a guy who knows his own limitations and is trying to safely participate than a guy who thinks he can push it and gets out of control. you may incur a penalty here and there, but if it came down to you shooting standing vs prone because you can't do it i can't believe anyone would penalize you any further, you are already at a disadvantage.

rules aside i think you will find most shooters/clubs would be happy to have you. i have met very few shooters that were anything less than friendly and more than helpful.

[alma]

Any club who would not let you participate based on your physical abilities would also be in violation of (if not mistaken) "The Americans with Disabilities Act".. someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong !

I am not sure that ADA would cover this. It would not fall under Title I (Employment) or Title II (Public Entities and Public Transportation).

Title III might cover it if you considered ranges and shooting matches a place of "Public Accommodation." Under Title III, no individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability with regards to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation. "Public accommodations" include most places of lodging (such as inns and hotels), recreation, transportation, education, and dining, along with stores, care providers, and places of public displays, among other things."

One of the great things about the large USPSA rule book and its legacy is that situations like this have already been accounted for in the rules. Regardless of disability the competitor must be able to handle guns safely and not endanger themselves or other competitors. This is a standard that applies to everyone and failure to do so would subject any shooter to disqualification under 10.5. That said the Range Master has the final say as to safety and is given a lot of leeway in helping to accommodate shooters who have disabilities. For example:

• 5.2.9 Competitors deemed by the Range Master to be significantly disabled may be given special dispensation in relation to the type and/or placement of their holsters and related equipment, and the Range Master will remain the final authority in regards to the safety and suitability of using such equipment at USPSA matches.
• 8.6.3 Competitors confined to wheelchairs or similar devices may be given special dispensation by the Range Master in respect of mobility assistance, however, the provisions of Rule 10.2.10 may still apply, at the Range Master’s discretion
• 10.2.10 Special penalty: A competitor unable to fully execute any part of a course of fire due to incapacity or injury may, prior to making his attempt at the course of fire, request that the Range Master apply a penalty in lieu of the stated course requirement.
• 10.2.10.1 Exception – In a weak hand/strong hand stage, a competitor who has physical use of only one hand may use the same hand for both weak and strong without penalty.
• 10.2.10.2 If the request is approved by the Range Master, a minimum of one procedural penalty, up to a maximum penalty of 20% of the competitor’s points “as shot” (rounded up to the nearest whole number), will be deducted from the competitor’s score. For example, if 100 points are available in the course of fire and the competitor actually scores 90 points, the special penalty is a deduction of 18 points. The Range Master may waive any or all procedural penalties in respect of a competitor who has a significant physical disability prior to the competitor making his attempt at the course of fire.

Edited May 22, 2014 by alma

[Steve RA]

Go out a watch a match at various clubs, talk to the Range Master, Club President or whomever seems to be in charge, explain your disability and ask if it would be a problem.

[uncledoc]

I agree with Steve RA.....

[JohnnyD]

I say see if you can find any Steel Challenge (no movement) or IDPA (not quite as crazy of movements as I've seen in 3Gun) and shorter stages than USPSA.

I know in IDPA if you have a physical issue with say kneeling behind a barrel, you can take a procedural (3 sec penalty) and just fire from standing. Might be a good idea to give the SO a heads up before hand but no biggie.

Best of luck!

[bigarm]

My physical disabilities may not be as bad as yours, but I have a congenital degenerative disease in my neck which causes calcium to deposit along the spinal cord. This in turn severely limits my neck mobility. I turn my body, not my neck. My son does a pretty good imitation! Also, I had major knee surgery in the fall which I probably will never completely recover from, but I have been doing USPSA and 3 gun since late March and having a blast. I may come in dead last, but I am safe and having fun. That is what counts to me. Join in and have fun!

[Jakobi]

Talk to the Match Directors for your local matches. If you showed up at one of my matches we'd figure out a way to make it work for you.

-Jake

[danjordan78]

I'm in a wheelchair and shoot matches all the time! ROs are more than willing to work with you on accommodations, especially if it doesn't effect the outcome of the match. I'm not fast enough, but I can still compare points!

[Ladyvalea]

I dig steel challenge! We mostly stand and shoot 5 strings .. No running needed !! I can only run as fast as my boobs will allow me ! [emoji13]

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

As for running, my version of running is what most folks consider to be a nice casual walk.

Bill

I am almost there myself! I was showing one of my videos to a young guy at work and his only comment was, "you run funny"

[Dkrad1935]

How do boobs slow you down? My experience has always been that pace increased when boobs were involved:)

[johnmac]

I'd suggest you try a static steel match to start. Some of those you can shoot with your rimfire rifle in addition to a pistol. Steel matches move fast, you get lots of shooting practice in a short amount of time, because there's no need to paste targets or reset anything.

Three gun is fun, but I've come to expect to spend the entire day standing out in the sun, given the time it takes to reset the complex stages. I honestly think the standing out in the sun part, waiting, is physically more draining than the shooting part.

[FrankC3803]

I agree with johnmac.

Starting with static steel matches would give you a taste of competition (speed and accuracy) without the need for movement.

The course of fire consists of 5 stages each with 5 targets. Scoring is best 4 out of 5 runs on each stage. 22 pistol or rifle friendly!

Be safe and have fun!

[Daft]

You know SASS is pretty cool, especially if you have the guns already.

[bajaholic]

I think like many of us beginners, having a productive enjoyable time is the key. As a beginner, there is not a chance in hell we are going to win anything (at least the club I shoot at) But each week I am getting better and having a blast shooting and meeting new people.

The more we shoot the better and creative we get to make the shots more constantly. Regardless of body shape or restrictions this same rule should apply.

When I was a young man (MANY YEARS AGO) a close relative was paralyzed from the chest down, he shot trap/skeet on a high level. (was one of the highest rated shooters in his time, long before disabilities were acknowledged) He also hunted ALL the time. It was inspirational to everyone around him!

I feel you may have the same experience, those that are challenged many times inspire those around them because they are trying 10 times more than those that are not. GO FOR IT!