Range command break down, rants, discussion?

[Shadyscott999]

As for expecting any specific timing between "Are you ready?" and "Standby", I have no pity for someone who is distracted by these things. Other than the logical constraint of it needing to be long enough to allow for a negative response, no timing is specified. The only timing specified by the rulebook is between "Standby." and the beep. My standard timing between "Are you ready" and "Standby" is for the person who does not respond. They may not respond for a number of reasons, including not hearing the command. If you want to make the time faster, respond in some way. Otherwise, stay focused, wait for the "Standby" and the beep. Don't let your personal peeves affect your own readiness to perform on the stage. Voicing your displeasure at me over my timing will get you nowhere when the problem is really in your head.

Exactly this, Jesus just nod.

Exactly not this. Just run the range commands -- or fetch an RO who can. They're not that hard......

I get the frustration with goofy commands like "gas it up" etc. But "are you ready?" Is a question. Responding doesn't hurt you one bit, and keeps the pacing consistent. Sure you don't HAVE to respond but I can't figure out why you wouldn't.

It may not hurt YOU. There are a lot of shooters that get in their own "zone" after MR I prefer not to respond. You are range lawyering against the rules(I think). After MR, I turn my ear pro off. I am only thinking about the stage and listening for the start of the beep.

[Nik Habicht]

As for expecting any specific timing between "Are you ready?" and "Standby", I have no pity for someone who is distracted by these things. Other than the logical constraint of it needing to be long enough to allow for a negative response, no timing is specified. The only timing specified by the rulebook is between "Standby." and the beep. My standard timing between "Are you ready" and "Standby" is for the person who does not respond. They may not respond for a number of reasons, including not hearing the command. If you want to make the time faster, respond in some way. Otherwise, stay focused, wait for the "Standby" and the beep. Don't let your personal peeves affect your own readiness to perform on the stage. Voicing your displeasure at me over my timing will get you nowhere when the problem is really in your head.

Exactly this, Jesus just nod.

Exactly not this. Just run the range commands -- or fetch an RO who can. They're not that hard......

I get the frustration with goofy commands like "gas it up" etc. But "are you ready?" Is a question. Responding doesn't hurt you one bit, and keeps the pacing consistent. Sure you don't HAVE to respond but I can't figure out why you wouldn't.

Simple -- because it's against USPSA rules. Personally I don't care one bit, but I don't expect everyone else to conform to my state of mind. Some competitors have their own routine -- during which they just want to zen out and wait for the beep. Consistent pacing? Give me a break -- there's no need to alter your pacing. Once the competitor assumes the required start position and remains still, the RO should issue "Are you ready?," wait a moment for a response and then move to Standby. My usual pause is somewhere between "one-one" and "one-onethousand......"

It's really not difficult if you're focused on the competitor.....

[Nik Habicht]

I will continue to do things my way when I run a stage. Within the rules of course.Thanks for all the input.

And within the RM's instructions, right?

[afoulk]

And no "Respect my authority" DQ's for asking to be unloaded, Right? I'll keep my hundred bucks handy, though, just in case.

[kmartphoto]

It's not "against the rules" to respond, nor does it hurt you to nod (or just stand there like a clown). It's against the rules to require a response.

[remoandiris]

And no "Respect my authority" DQ's for asking to be unloaded, Right? I'll keep my hundred bucks handy, though, just in case.

????? When is anyone "asked" to be unloaded. Competitors are TOLD to unload IF they are finished. Or they are TOLD to unload because the RO saw a dq-able offense. No one is "asked" to unload.

Unless your post means a competitor is "asking to be unloaded". In that case, since the competitor is "asking to be unloaded", they have quit/finished the COF. They are then TOLD "If you are finished, unload and show clear."

Edited April 21, 2014 by remoandiris

[Gary Stevens]

If I have a steel that falls, or a target that needs pasting, I just tell the shooter to "Stand easy, we have to set a steel, paste a target, etc." I do this while standing on the shooters gun side facing them. Standing in front of the shooter is a good option, I just never did it unless it was a non-English speaking shooter. Then I stand in front of the shooter.

[Sarge]

(or just stand there like a clown).

like 99.9% of USPSA shooters do?

[kmartphoto]

(or just stand there like a clown).

like 99.9% of USPSA shooters do?

Yup

Not that there's nothing wrong with doing that, it's just pointless.

Edited April 21, 2014 by kmartphoto

[ktm300]

(or just stand there like a clown).

like 99.9% of USPSA shooters do?

Yup

Not that there's nothing wrong with doing that, it's just pointless.

So with the double negative are you saying there is something wrong with not responding? Probably not but..

To the "it's just pointless" part that is your opinion and you are entitled. In my opinion there is a reason and it's called focus. Hard enough to get and keep without pandering to RO's that don't understand the job.

[chaosshooter00]

Got "iced" by an RO this weekend. First I just waited, then he asked for a head nod turned and talked to his buddy and missed it, when I finally went full bobble head, he hit the button. The new rulebook just came out, I told him to give it a read and he informed me that as I didn't respond, he didn't have to. I think the rulebook is very clear on this, not even a smidgen of gray, of course I read at a fourth grade level, just saying...

[afoulk]

Remo,

It was a reference to post #34 in which Sarge implies that he would DQ a shooter who asks to unload as an alternative to having to put their hands on their head in a situation where there is no pressing safety issue and no support for the command anywhere in the rules.

[Sarge]

Got "iced" by an RO this weekend. First I just waited, then he asked for a head nod turned and talked to his buddy and missed it, when I finally went full bobble head, he hit the button. The new rulebook just came out, I told him to give it a read and he informed me that as I didn't respond, he didn't have to. I think the rulebook is very clear on this, not even a smidgen of gray, of course I read at a fourth grade level, just saying...

Heck, you could have told him to read the OLD rulebook. It has not changed lately.

[Sarge]

Remo,

It was a reference to post #34 in which Sarge implies that he would DQ a shooter who asks to unload as an alternative to having to put their hands on their head in a situation where there is no pressing safety issue and no support for the command anywhere in the rules.

Didn't imply that. I implied that I could take action if a shooter failed to comply. Actually there is support for the request in the rules:

10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a

Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsportsmanlike

conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty,

failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official,

[whitedog]

If I'm yer RO and someone is going down range you are going to do something with yer hands. On yer head, crossed across chest, pockets, etc... There is a mental process called the OODA loop. It has to be broken in stress environments or "subconscious" training can kick in. In other words, you have to do something you would not do in the particular chain of events to stop the mind from following a known path.

Complain to MD or RM if you wish...but also be prepared to RO,because I'm done.

[CHA-LEE]

All of this bickering back and forth is a waste of time. As an RO, you are choosing to either follow the rules or not.

If you are an RO that requires a shooter to confirm they are ready by responding physically or verbally before you give the Stand By command, then you are NOT following the rules as they are written. If you are going to RO, then you need to be following the rules.

[afoulk]

When you have unload and show clear available to deal with the situation, pretty much any request to "strike a pose" is unreasonable. Unsportsmanlike? Not even remotely. Even if it's only slightly uncomfortable for the shooter, it's not reasonable to ask.

By the way this one is completely valid for quieting down the peanut gallery so the shooter can hear range commands, asking shooters to clear the range, take a step back to give the RO room to navigate the COF, paste targets and help reset the stage..

Edited April 21, 2014 by afoulk

[SonOfSpartans]

I am relatively new to this. I have gotten the question "are you ready?" many times. That does not bug me much, I just nod.

The one that does bug me. I know (was taught) the universal sign. COF indicated a surrender start position. I was still hand on grip, setting my focus and was asked if I was ready. I should have been more kind as I questioned his observational skills.

JC

[Sarge]

When you have unload and show clear available to deal with the situation, pretty much any request to "strike a pose" is unreasonable. Unsportsmanlike? Not even remotely. Even if it's only slightly uncomfortable for the shooter, it's not reasonable to ask.

By the way this one is completely valid for quieting down the peanut gallery so the shooter can hear range commands, asking shooters to clear the range, take a step back to give the RO room to navigate the COF, paste targets and help reset the stage..

There is an infinite number of reasonable requests an RO can make, to include doing something with your hands to comfort those down range. That is no less reasonable than asking a shooter to face a berm or face uprange. Actually having a shooter face uprange deprives him of additional time to war game the stage while waiting.

It may or may not be unsportsmanlike. The rule cited just happens to be the rule that is relevant.

[wgnoyes]

<RANT>

...The guy at crono said "take your gun out".

...

</RANT>

What did you want to hear at the chronograph? "Make Ready"? Make Ready for what? You're not going to be shooting the gun, the Chronograph CRO is.

Appendix C3

...

52. A recommended procedure to follow at the chronograph station is to advise the squad/individual competitors not to handle the firearm until instructed. The Chronograph CRO should have a station next to him where the competitor, when called, can step up and when instructed, show a cleared firearm and then place it on the table per the CRO’s instructions. The competitor will also provide an empty magazine to be used. The competitor will then step back until the chronograph process is completed. The Chronograph CRO, after the ammo has been tested, will make sure the firearm is empty and then place it on the table and call the competitor to retrieve, clear and holster the firearm. The empty magazine will be returned at this time and the next competitor called to the line.

Edited April 21, 2014 by wgnoyes

[bdpaz]

I am relatively new to this. I have gotten the question "are you ready?" many times. That does not bug me much, I just nod.

The one that does bug me. I know (was taught) the universal sign. COF indicated a surrender start position. I was still hand on grip, setting my focus and was asked if I was ready. I should have been more kind as I questioned his observational skills.

JC

You should get the question "Are you ready" every time as it is one of the official commands. One of the points in this thread is that a positive response is not required.

What command are you getting when you aren't asked "Are you ready"?

[afoulk]

Sarge,

I assume you've issued the stop command and followed that up with telling the shooter not to handle their firearm. Nothing else is required. Everything else is window dressing, and yes, that includes facing any direction. If you really need more than that, under penalty of DQ for failing to comply, unload and show clear is the command. It really doesn't cost that much time, because you have to issue "make ready" with all the allowable gyrations, anyway.

[Sarge]

<RANT>

...The guy at crono said "take your gun out".

...

</RANT>

What did you want to hear at the chronograph? "Make Ready"? Make Ready for what? You're not going to be shooting the gun, the Chronograph CRO is.

Appendix C3

...

52. A recommended procedure to follow at the chronograph station is to advise the squad/individual competitors not to handle the firearm until instructed. The Chronograph CRO should have a station next to him where the competitor, when called, can step up and when instructed, show a cleared firearm and then place it on the table per the CROs instructions. The competitor will also provide an empty magazine to be used. The competitor will then step back until the chronograph process is completed. The Chronograph CRO, after the ammo has been tested, will make sure the firearm is empty and then place it on the table and call the competitor to retrieve, clear and holster the firearm. The empty magazine will be returned at this time and the next competitor called to the line.

agreed. Chrono is usually something along the lines of take your gun out and lay it on the table.

[NoSteel]

This past weekend our Club hosted a day long New shooters clinic. During the verbal training, the commands were gone over and recited precisely. Indication was given that these were the commands you would hear and the shooters options ( are you ready response, or lack of). The group was large so it was split in 2 with shooters with little to no shooting experince going to one range and the others staying at the first range. Keep in mind there were several R.O.s with each group overseeing the shooters so making sure the commands were always the same insured there would be no confusion which is imperative when working a large group. At the end of the day, I was R.O.'ing one of the 2 practice stages we had set up and a new shooter who had never even shot before this day asked if they could spend extra time on the stage (Several runs) and I abliged. When done, the shooter told me how much more comfortable it made them because from the start of the day they knew what to expect, what was expected of them when with no variation thru the course of the day in terms of the commands. THEY FELT COMFORTABLE!!!!! This should be enough to convince anybody.........

[SonOfSpartans]

I am relatively new to this. I have gotten the question "are you ready?" many times. That does not bug me much, I just nod.

The one that does bug me. I know (was taught) the universal sign. COF indicated a surrender start position. I was still hand on grip, setting my focus and was asked if I was ready. I should have been more kind as I questioned his observational skills.

JC

You should get the question "Are you ready" every time as it is one of the official commands. One of the points in this thread is that a positive response is not required.

What command are you getting when you aren't asked "Are you ready"?

According to the stage briefing, I had not taken the start position after the make ready. Are you saying I should be asked that with my hand still on my pistol?