Overscore Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I only recently got into reloading .223, after doing nothing but 9mm for a while. It seems to me that getting .223 to accurately and reliably resize on a progressive press isn't possible. I've resized about 1000 rounds on my Dillon 650, and then about 300 on a friend's Hornady Lock n Load progressive, and about 200 on a friend's single stage Hornady. Only on the single stage did all the brass gage and feed fine. I attribute the difference to the flex in shell plates. Hopefully my conclusion is right, because I just ordered an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press to resize my .223. Has this experience been shared by others? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I've only loaded about 4k rounds on my 550 but I know folks that have done upwards or 30k on 550s, 650, and 1050s and they all chamber and fire just fine. Have you tried tightening your shellplate if you think that's the issue? Have you tried case gauging the brass after each station to see which station is causing the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overscore Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 I have the shell plate as tight as it can be while still being able to index properly, but I swear it wobbles more than it should. I do the resizing as its own step, and then gage everything. I was surprised by how many didn't resize properly. It could certainly be some other issue, but I'll wait to see what luck I have with this Rock Chucker when it comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I set up a 550 with sizing and dillon trimmer as a brass processing press. A bl 550 with the auto eject works great for this. set sizing about .002 long...finish to spec at loading. I have found that the lube you use can have a drastic effect on sizing, I use lanolin applied by hand. I size deprime and trim with the 550, then load on a 1050 ( it does the primer pockets). We just keep processed brass in ziplock bags until we load them. This works best for us Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 You want to have every station on the shell plate full, otherwise it will "tilt" somewhat, no matter how tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anm2_man Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 You want to have every station on the shell plate full, otherwise it will "tilt" somewhat, no matter how tight. What Steve said. Whether a 550 or a 650, you need to have all stations filled before adjusting and follow the adjusting guide lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 How close do you have your die to the shell plate? This would be the adjustment I would be worried about the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 No problems sizing on a LnL AP here; can't imagine there being a huge difference with either of the Dillons. Are you using case lube, and if so, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Dillon case lube, sort brass by headstamp, fill the shellplate before making final adjustments...should be good to go. as a comparison, David Tubb uses Dillon progressives for his competition precision ammo, so they obviously work... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadarrow Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I've reloaded 1000's on my Hornady L&L AP. Never had a problem. I lube with a spray from Cabella's thats lanolin in a alcohal base. I do de-prime and re-size all my brass at once. Then I use a Dillon super sweger. Trim using the Little Crow WFT, this tool is the bomb by the way. Hand prime and stock pile the brass. Then when I am ready to reload it's just drop powder, seat a bullit and crimp. Have not had a bad round yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I resize and trim with a 650 & RT1200. No issues at all once your dies are adjusted as mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overscore Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Damn, I never thought about the fact that the resizing die is the only die that I have in the tool head, and this could lead to tilting. Thanks. I will try loading up all the holes in the head. I'm using Hornady One Shot case lube. I think that I subconsciously ordered the single stage press first before inquiring about this, since I've wanted an excuse to get a little utility/one-off operation press to have at my disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TA338 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hornady OneShot is meant for pistol brass. I got a 223 case stuck in the FL die with OneShot. For some strange reason OneShot worked ok when full length sizing 338 Lapua brass. Anyway use Dillon brass lube and you will not have problems with brass jamming in the dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) Damn, I never thought about the fact that the resizing die is the only die that I have in the tool head, and this could lead to tilting. Thanks. I will try loading up all the holes in the head. I'm using Hornady One Shot case lube. I think that I subconsciously ordered the single stage press first before inquiring about this, since I've wanted an excuse to get a little utility/one-off operation press to have at my disposal. Nothing wrong with having a single stage...Put a Dillon trimmer on the opposite side of the sizer/decapper, and use Dillon case lube. One handle pull, two operations. Use a 1050 and deswage the primer pockets as well, three operations with each handle pull.. Tumble to remove lube. Put in a different head with loading dies, then prime, powder, seat. jj Eta; I will bet most of your problems are from using one shot, and not sorting by headstamp. Edited March 11, 2014 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overscore Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hornady OneShot is meant for pistol brass. I got a 223 case stuck in the FL die with OneShot. For some strange reason OneShot worked ok when full length sizing 338 Lapua brass. Anyway use Dillon brass lube and you will not have problems with brass jamming in the dies. I have a surgery pending to get a jammed case out of my small base die tonight, and this was lubed with the One Shot. Perhaps you're onto something there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Help me understand the shell plate issue. If I am not mistaken on the 550, the 'force' being applied is from the lower part of the ram. The shell plate only comes under stress when pulling the cart from the die. Of course your shell plate should not be too loose. Think about it, you could actually push brass into a FL sizing die without a shell plat at all. Removing the brass is where the shell plate does the work. Am I wrong and have missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 BTW - I do off-line processing for all of my rifle brass before it makes its way to the 550. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 If you remove the shell plate, the ram doesn't line up with the die, now what ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Help me understand the shell plate issue. If I am not mistaken on the 550, the 'force' being applied is from the lower part of the ram. The shell plate only comes under stress when pulling the cart from the die. Of course your shell plate should not be too loose. Think about it, you could actually push brass into a FL sizing die without a shell plat at all. Removing the brass is where the shell plate does the work. Am I wrong and have missed something? When the brass hits the toolhead, there is some play which can cause a misalignment.This is true for all stations. When all statons are filled, the play is evenly distributed. All dies line up. If they don't line up equally, besides misalignment problems, your sizing die doesn't size as far down and the OAL can be off on the seating die etc. A loose shellplate can also cause alignment issues. Not sure if this is what you are asking. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhett45acp Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I guess my point is, if you take a case in station 1; Operate the ram a full stroke, the case will have the same amount of pressure inserted into the FL die. Yes, the case must be aligned properly and a floppy shell plate carrier is not a good thing. But, the tool head slop will be the same every time. Too me the variables are for FL sizing are only in the tool head and the ram plate. Given the case is aligned correctly, the shell plate does not come into play. I am traveling right now, but when I get back to my 550 I am going to do some test. The reason I am kind of rabid on this issue is I have seen many post about 550 toolhead slop and such. I just don't get the point. But, let me restate - any pronounced slop is not good. I get that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Whether a 550 or a 650, you need to have all stations filled before adjusting and follow the adjusting guide lines. It won't matter that much if you are just sizing and depriming as none of the other stations are going to have any effect. Only on the single stage did all the brass gage and feed fine. I attribute the difference to the flex in shell plates. Hopefully my conclusion is right, because I just ordered an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press to resize my .223. I have loaded rifle rounds on the 550, 650 and 1050 with success and they are all more consistant that the distance between GO and NO GO on a case gauge. FWIW there is zero effect of shell plate flex on a 550 during the ram upstroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevoTT Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I second what riggerJJ said. I use two toolheads on my 1050 for 223 and 308, my processing head has Dillon FL size/decap in station 2, swage in station 3 with expander part of backup rod filed down, and RT1200 in station 5. For my mil surp 308 I add a small base body only die at station 8 (OP, this last step may help with your problem). The Dillon trim dies really squeeze the necks down tight, so for gas guns I leave them alone, and for bolt guns I run them through a Lee Collet neck sizing die. One big improvement in minimizing the partially full shell plate effect is to use one of the bearing kits. This gets the shellplate down tighter so it has less wobble. I does make feeding less reliable, because I think in station one, the shellplate is lower in relation to the base of the case and has less "float", so I chamfer and polish the "feed lips" part of each station on the shellplate. My trim lengths, sizing, and OAL's are way more consistent with this mod, especially when using mixed brass. I use the Dillon lanolin case lube without issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 How much wobble do you guys have when the ram is at full up stroke and forcing a tapered and bottleneck case up into a die with enough force to reshape the entire case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Do you have the die adjusted to the Dillon printed instructions or to what's referred to as "cam-over"? My experiance is the Dillon presses and sizing die size best when adjusted to cam- over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I put the kid to bed and decided to see how much slop one of the 1050's had in the shell plate. I zeroed a Brown & Sharp bestest accurate to .0005" onto the top of the shell plate with the tool head above the case and lowered it onto the case. Less than a half a thousanth (.0005) movement in the indicator from unloaded to the cam bottoming out on the stop. The shell plate did rase almost .015" upward as the case was pulled frrom the die but that has no effect onOAL of anything. As noted before the 550 is going to be zero deflection because the case does not sit on the rotating shell plate and I didn't have enough "stuff" to rig up the indicator to the 650 as it would have to move up and down with the ram and shell plate. I will stick with my feeling that there is not enough wobble to have effect. kind of wish they could make the rest of the products that go into reloading that accurate. Edited March 13, 2014 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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