shoot4fun Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think you will see some flex in the tool head that would vary based on the amount of work the individual dies are doing. I.e. A tight case to resize would result in a flex of the tool head that could seat the bullet deeper on the other side of the tool head. Or maybe not. That would be a good test to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If you are unfamiliar with the 550 (the one David Tubb loads on) shell plate it looks like the attached photo. only locates and pulls the case back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I think you will see some flex in the tool head that would vary based on the amount of work the individual dies are doing. I.e. A tight case to resize would result in a flex of the tool head that could seat the bullet deeper on the other side of the tool head. Or maybe not. That would be a good test to figure out.Yeah, machine the center bolt flat so you can attach the indicator to the top and you could measure all around the tool head right at each die. Still would be minimal or the dowels would bind up in the frame after they pass through the shell plate. As even a few thousandths that high would be a lot at the bottom of the dowels. In any case you wouldn't be sizing/depriming on #2 and seating a bullet on #7 unless you didn't trim your brass after sizing (loading non processed brass).On a turret press it can be whatever slop is in the fit but the 1050 tool head is held tight to the 1.5" ram with a 5/8" bolt. On the 650 and 550 I would bet there is not much there because they are inside a slot in the casting. Edited March 13, 2014 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Damn, I never thought about the fact that the resizing die is the only die that I have in the tool head, and this could lead to tilting. Thanks. I will try loading up all the holes in the head. I'm using Hornady One Shot case lube. And this is probably your issue. I know people do use One Shot for rifle at times, but it's not ideal for it, IMO, while it's absolutely great for pistol lube. Were you using the OneShot when trying your friends' presses, as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Had a few minutes so I checked tool head flex today. I didn't have one setup for .223 so I checked it sizing .308 cases. Drilled and reamed a 5/8 18 bolt and pressed in a 1/4" rod to hang the indicator from and adjusted it to set on top of the bullet seating die. Unlike the shell plate there was zero movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think in some of the foregoing comments there has been some confusion between the toolhead and the shellplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot4fun Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 From what I can tell from your photo it looks like you are measuring the flex of the tool head. Which is what I said in my comments. I should have said top end which would include the ram and bushings and such. I also should have called it run out / flex / movement. I have seen movement there when they get in a cam over situation. I assume if it moves visibally in that situation then it could move in normal reloading processes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Never had a problem on my 550's and have never even used a single stage press. If you can't size properly its not the presses fault looking to the die settings. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I have seen movement there when they get in a cam over situation. I assume if it moves visibally in that situation then it could move in normal reloading processes? I have seen mountains move, realitive to my location, but I have to think they are not moving as much as they seem. The only way I know, to know how much something moves is to measure it. I am willing to try any methods that I can. What is the next test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I don't recall any bushings in the casting of the 1050 but I think I could measure runout or flex with the same bolt/rod that I used in post #30. It's about 18" long, just need is to indicate off the top at a known distance with zero load and "full" load, note deflection and do a little trigonometry and you would have the total flex of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPatton Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have the shell plate as tight as it can be while still being able to index properly, but I swear it wobbles more than it should. I do the resizing as its own step, and then gage everything. I was surprised by how many didn't resize properly. It could certainly be some other issue, but I'll wait to see what luck I have with this Rock Chucker when it comes. The shellplate has 2 functions. It lets you index the brass and provides a means to EXTRACT cases from the dies. Your problems have nothing to do with whether or not it's loose. Adjust the dies to the desired (correct) depth and put enough One Shot or enough sheep grease spray to make the resizing operation feel consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808win Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Help me understand the shell plate issue. If I am not mistaken on the 550, the 'force' being applied is from the lower part of the ram. The shell plate only comes under stress when pulling the cart from the die. Of course your shell plate should not be too loose. Think about it, you could actually push brass into a FL sizing die without a shell plat at all. Removing the brass is where the shell plate does the work. Am I wrong and have missed something? I agree with what I think rhett45acp is saying. As I see it, the shellplate platform, not the shellplate, presses the cases into the dies via the case heads. The shellplate positions the cases in "approximate" alignment with the dies, moves the cases from station to station when it's indexed, engages the case extraction grooves allowing the cases to be extracted from the dies when the ram/platform is lowered, and limits the vertical movement of the case in the priming station when a case is being primed. Just my 2 cents. Edited March 25, 2014 by 808win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigs Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) What I've found to be the primary cause of sizing variations is debris on the shellplate. A single piece of walnut hull or brass turning (if you use a rapid trim that's leaking brass) between the die and the shellplate can cause a massive variation in sizing. This debris can also stick to the bottom of the die, so check there as well. This applies to any die that gets very close to or touches the shellplate when you are fully down. Edited March 24, 2014 by gigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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