Gregg K Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 At one of our last matches one of my friends kept having trouble with his PC 625. I would see him going click, bang, click click click, bang. He went through several moons and when we picked them up there wasn't a mark on a single primer of the ones that didn't fire. We went to another bay on the range to check it out. When he ran slow they all fired but as soon as he would speed up he would get a click but this time he held the trigger back and we saw that the hammer was dropping in between the cartridges. I took it home to investigate and put some marker on the cylinder to watch the track of the cylinder stop and here is what I found. There was the usual peening of the cylinder notches and a burr on the lead in groove that you would associate with a gun skipping chambers but I really didn't like the stop tracking high in the groove and not going down the center. The cylinder stop was also wearing way to the front of the stop and not on the apex of the stop. You can see where the stop contacts the bottom of the notch toward the front and not the center. Also, the notches on this PC gun are about .100" shorter than all of my other N frames which doesn't help the situation. My friend sent the picture to S&W and they said they were sending him some stronger cylinder stop springs from a magnum gun. I didn't wait for the springs as I failed to see what pushing up harder in the wrong place was going to solve. I beat the peened areas back down on the cylinder notches and went to work on the cylinder stop. I reshaped the stop to force it to ride more on the apex of the hump of the stop. I took a little off of the pad to make the stop rise up a little higher. I also lengthened the slot in the cylinder stop that rides over the pivot pin to allow the stop to ride a little more to the rear of the window and shift it a little closer to the center of the short notches. After the adjustments, here is the new track of the stop. It tracks in the center and you can see where the stop contacts the bottom of the notch in the center. The contact point of the stop is now also in the middle where it should be. I have seen where others have had long battles with Skip Chambers showing up so I am posting this in case someone has a similar situation. Thanks to Warren (Tool Guy) for giving us some of his secret ways to adjust a cylinder stop in one of his many helpful posts on this forum. It's the knowledge that he has shared on this forum that allowed me to figure this one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Nice work, I'm sure this will help somebody out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Great job Gregg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) This problem just showed itself on Wendy's gun. Her 27-7 with a Ti cylinder just started doing the same thing. It is now unshootable and the IRC is 3 weeks away. I have a new cylinder stop but unsure if that is the problem. It is tracking exactly as Gregg has shown. This gun has about 4k rounds through it. I guess I do some of the tips Gregg mentioned. Should I replace the cylinder stop and polish up a new one? Do you think moving this one forward in the notch would solve the skipping issue? What layout ink dis you use. It is like Dykem? Edited May 12, 2014 by Ty Hamby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granderojo Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) +1 to what Warren said "Really nice job, both from the diaonostic end, but the repairs as well! Ty, I have used a marker pen, if that's all you have. Edited May 12, 2014 by granderojo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The key is to get rid of those little ridges at the bottom of the cylinder stop lead-in ramps (visible in the first photo above). They are what cause the cylinder stop to jump the notch when you start cranking the trigger hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lora Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The key is to get rid of those little ridges at the bottom of the cylinder stop lead-in ramps (visible in the first photo above). They are what cause the cylinder stop to jump the notch when you start cranking the trigger hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yup. That ridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signcutter Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I think Mike is spot on here. half way through the match mine started skipping chambers if I aggressively engaged closer targets. A brief visual inspection of the gun didn't reveal anything overt and I spent the rest of the match working the trigger very deliberately to avoid over rotating the cylinder. After returning home and doing a bit of research here on BE, I inspected the cylinder notches with a magnifier and strong light and I could see some barely perceptible ridges at the bottom of the lead in ramps that looked even smaller than the pics posted above. I took a dremel with a fine craytex bit and cleaned up the ridges. I got it out to the range this afternoon and ran 5 moons through it running Bill Drills at 7 yards with the average of the splits being between .25 and .30 seconds with no skip whatsoever. The cylinder on this gun is Ti, which kind of surprised me a little that the notches are peening with only around 1800 rounds on the gun. I am a bit of a knuckle dragger, so my trigger pulling technique may have a lot to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Nice work, I'm sure this will help somebody out. Yep. It helped me, thanks! I experienced what I thought were light primer strikes or hard primers at the last match I shot. Looking at the dumped moonclips I found a few telltale firing pin dimples in the case heads on some of the unfired rounds, and none of the unfired rounds had dimples on their primers. Skip Chambers has paid me a visit.... A search of "skip chamber" here on BE and I had all the info I needed to (hopefully) fix the problem on my 627. A big Thank You to everybody who posted their experiences and techniques for fixing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theogre Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks this was a great help with my problem as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Why should you have to do all that with an 'upper level', expensive revolver? Shouldn't a gun costing that much go bang every time you pull the trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snertley Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Any metal part is subject to wear and tear. If you think about the amout of force that little slot has to stop on every round fired something will give, break or bend. If you never pulled your revo trigger fast it would most likely never happen to your gun. Shooting fast split times gets that cylinder spinning very fast and the only thing stopping it is the cylinder stop. Some metals will wear less but are not imune from this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 OK, that makes sense. Although I have to note that my IDPA Ruger GP-100 went over 35,000 rounds before it went out of time and needed a tune up - and well more that half of those rounds were 125 PF Plus+ stuff. How many rounds did the S&W gun have through it before it needed a tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Ya gotta take into account the substantial weight of 6 45 rounds w/ 230 gr bullets going in a circle with a yahoo yanking the trigger for short split times. That's a lotta weight to stop for a relatively small part. I expect ongoing maintenance on my race car and no different on my race guns. Just part of the fun of revos and big block Chebby's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 OK, that makes sense. Although I have to note that my IDPA Ruger GP-100 went over 35,000 rounds before it went out of time and needed a tune up - and well more that half of those rounds were 125 PF Plus+ stuff. How many rounds did the S&W gun have through it before it needed a tune? The power factor has nothing to do with this type of wear, it has more to do with how fast you run the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dave Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) My IDPA Model 67 just started skipping. I don't think you can blame the massive cylinder on a K-frame for that. My vintage Model 13 has fired a lot more rounds with no trouble. I've attached a comparison photo--see if you can spot the difference. Second photo--a modern 627 and a Model 520 circa 19821978. Edited May 3, 2015 by Dirty Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 The narrow lead in to the cylinder notch on the 67 isn't helping especially with a burr and the end of the lead in just before the notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Fresh for me, 929 with less than 2k started jumping yesterday. Two of the notches have heavy peening already. Hammer them back in as described by warren, several notches have that lead in ridge as mike describes. I'm really at a loss for just how much junk s&w rolls out the door as good, it is just plain junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dave Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 It seems to me that S&W has reduced the radius of the lead-in (not necessarily the depth) too much. In the photo I posted of the 627 it doesn't appear the stop rides down in the cut at all, but only along its forward edge. I'm thinking about looking up my local "gun plumber" and seeing if he can recut the lead-in (with a mill, I guess) to match the old style. I believe that would make a big difference. I had this problem last year with a 625. In that case, among other things, the stop was rather rounded on its forward edge. I got a replacement which happened to drop in nicely and worked for a few hundred rounds. Then it turned out the new stop was so sharp that, as it bounced along the cylinder, it was gouging out bits of metal, leaving a line of pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallisticianX Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Fresh for me, 929 with less than 2k started jumping yesterday. Two of the notches have heavy peening already. Hammer them back in as described by warren, several notches have that lead in ridge as mike describes. I'm really at a loss for just how much junk s&w rolls out the door as good, it is just plain junk. Sean, You had a compound problem. I may have not been clear yesterday.... when I said there was peening I don't remember if I specifically said that it was directed at both the stops and the ratchet. I think the cylinder stop is the problem but it is being exacerbated by the ratchet ratchet being worn already. I suspect the hand is disengaging the ratchet early thus not getting the full index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The peening/skipping problem is almost exclusively an issue with stainless steel cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I had Skip Chambers pay my 627 an unexpected visit last weekend.. Hadn't happened is about a year and had found the telltale firing pin indent on the case head next to the primer. Time to peen the notches again. This is a great thread that explains the cause and solution well, Thanks. (tagging for reference) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 My skipping problem returned and returned every couple of months. It simply would not stay away. I finally replaced the cylinder stop spring with one cut less than the previous one. Problem solved. A weak cylinder stop spring can lead to poor engagement, that leads to premature penning, that leads to skipping. Dont go too light on the cylinder stop spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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