650 swager

[gigs]

Good write up, thanks for taking the time. In your conclusion you stated "priming difficulties may remain". However, I think the fundamental question is did the GS swaged cases actually result in more priming difficulties compared to other methods when it came time to load on the 650? In other words, does the difference in primer pocket geometry/diameter have any practical implications?

I'll have to try to hand prime a few done with the GS swager to see. I can tell you they definitely cause problems on a 1050 priming at 1800rds/hour... but that's not a fair test since that's really pushing the envelope. I'll add an addendum after I hand-prime some for a more realistic test.

The photos don't seem to match the descriptions.?

Are they rendering weird for you? I tweaked the CSS a little to add the border to make it clearer which caption went with what picture. The captions are below the images they go to.

[gigs]

Addendum

Several readers stated that I should have actually posted results from priming the cases processed by the GS Swager. I did 10 rounds of unswaged LC 5.56 brass, 10 rounds processed with a single pass of the GS 650 Swager, and 10 rounds with a single pass of the Dillon 1050 swage system. The results were as follows:

• Unswaged: 5 trimmed/smeared edge primers, with 1 that somewhat crushed and had to be forced in. All primers took moderate to heavy force to seat, and all primers exhibited a somewhat uneven surface after seating.
• GS 650 Swager: 5 trimmed/smeared edges, 1 mashed in flat with excessive force.. Somewhat more likely to leave brass shavings from the primer cup edge than the unswaged ones. Did not exhibit the heavy seating pressure or surface unevenness that the unswaged batch had, but no real improvement on shaving the cup edges or avoiding the occassional mashed in primers.
• Dillon 1050 Swage System: All primed fine without any trouble.

Regarding methodology, I only bumped each case once from the 650 swager system. Since the 1050 system only needs one go, I figured I should do apples to apples.I have seen videos of people using the 650 swager where they bump the case multiple times, and this may improve the performance. The 650 swager spring was fully compressed at the bottom of each stroke for maximum protrusion. Shell plate is stock Dillon. Priming was on an RCBS desktop hand primer.

I was somewhat surprised the GS swager performed this poorly, even though I suspected that it wasn't going to be fully effective even with hand priming.

[deanq]

Very interesting?!

I just finished processing 4000 LC02 cases on my 650. I size on station 1 90%, swaged on 2, and trimmed and final sized on 4 (Dillon RT1200). I figured I was pulling/pushing the handle anyway, I might as well see how the swager worked. I tested mine with a Lee hand primer. They primed like commercial cases (smooth). I did about 15 cases to see if I was set up ok. Mine worked as advertised, better actually than the last 3000 I had processed by a commercial loader on his 1050.

What I did notice was, if it wasn't screwed in all the way it would short stroke like yours apparently did.

I had to grind an old Craftsman wrench on the bench grinder to be thin enough to screw it in all the way.

Bottom line...it worked great for me. Saved me a BUNCH of time. YMMV!

[reloader901]

Without waking up purists.....

What is wrong with chamfering the crimp rather than swaging?

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[rjacobs]

Without waking up purists.....

What is wrong with chamfering the crimp rather than swaging?

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Chamfer wouldnt really be the correct word.

You are removing metal when you ream the crimp out. When you swage you are simply displacing the brass back into the primer pocket. Some people say this actually makes the primer pocket harder and last longer because you are work hardening the brass a tiny amount. I dont know if I subscribe to that train of thought, but it is possible I guess.

[jmorris]

Nothing, it just takes longer to do.

[gigs]

Bottom line...it worked great for me. Saved me a BUNCH of time. YMMV!

Mine is absolutely 100% screwed in all the way. The squared edge of the swager comes up all the way through the hole of the shell plate.

[anm2_man]

I just finished up another 1200 .223 cases with a set up just like yours. I random sampled 25 pieces using a Lee Hand Primer and all primers entered with no feeling of brass shavings and as I stated earlier, "A nice firm insertion" just like if you were using New un-primed brass.

But I do use one of GS's shell plates. There is no comparison between the Dillon shell plate and this after market one. There is no play and maybe that is the difference ? I have not tested the Dillon plate, but the GS plate has less than .001" vertical play when set and locked correctly.

Very interesting?!

I just finished processing 4000 LC02 cases on my 650. I size on station 1 90%, swaged on 2, and trimmed and final sized on 4 (Dillon RT1200). I figured I was pulling/pushing the handle anyway, I might as well see how the swager worked. I tested mine with a Lee hand primer. They primed like commercial cases (smooth). I did about 15 cases to see if I was set up ok. Mine worked as advertised, better actually than the last 3000 I had processed by a commercial loader on his 1050.

What I did notice was, if it wasn't screwed in all the way it would short stroke like yours apparently did.

I had to grind an old Craftsman wrench on the bench grinder to be thin enough to screw it in all the way.

Bottom line...it worked great for me. Saved me a BUNCH of time. YMMV!

Edited December 4, 2013 by anm2_man

[gigs]

A stiffer shell plate might make a difference. I just ordered one of his shell plates, so we'll see. I really have no use for a 650 swager but I want to see this through.

[deanq]

Just an update to my post #78. I used one of the new steel shell plates also. I checked the wrench I ground down. It wasn't a Craftsman . It was a SEARS brand Final thickness was about 1/8" thick.

[jmorris]

Likely a tappet wrench, they have a smaller cross section.

[S&W627shooter]

Since I have 2 50g buckets of brass I guess I'll just start sorting and see where I am. I hav no intent to buy 223 brass and I'm probably not going to shoot more than a few thousand rounds a year so we'll see what it looks like.

So PMC, Winchester, FCC and Remington do NOT need to be swaged, right?

Was that a typo?

Do you mean 5 gallons?

Or 50 gallons?

If 50 gallons, then:

This guy has got it going on with his tricked out Dillon 600 swager:

I've just been buying factory commercial ammo, and then saving that (uncrimped) brass to reload with. Any crimped in primer stuff that I find goes in a box that I have had for years.

I have one of the RCBS tools that gets chucked in their prep center. I've also heard that a chamfering/deburring tool normally used on the mouths of the cases, will ream out the crimp too. I just figure I will chuck the deburring tool in my handheld corded drill, clamp the drill in a vise, and then lock the trigger down. I plan on having an "inbox" on the bench, of still crimped brass. and then a 5 gallon bucket as my "outbox" sitting on the floor. I would think it would go pretty quickly.

That is awesome. I applaud your creativity. I'll be trying this next time I break out the bucket of brass and my 600.

Thanks!

[Chills1994]

Not my video. I wish I could take credit it for it. All my crimped brass (that I just happen to find) goes into a .30 cal ammo can way up high on a shelf. I'm saving it for a rainy day project.

[gcambi]

.

[anm2_man]

After finishing the first batch as stated below. I started on another batch (the bucket probably has 4k in it). What happened was that after about 600 rounds of this new batch and 1200 of the old batch, the GS Swager unscrewed itself. It actually fell on the bench LOL. This made more work, but I think there is a problem on getting it tight enough. Its difficult to get a wrench on it since the spring is slightly larger than the 9/16" hex head. I removed the ski jump so that I could see better, but there is just no way with a std 9/16" open end wrench to make it really tight. After I tightened it up again as best as I could, I processed another 500 (still have a bunch to go) rounds and its still tight.

So If your using the GS Swager, double check its tightness after every batch/1200 rounds.

Anybody got any ideas on how to get the swager locked up ????

I just finished up another 1200 .223 cases with a set up just like yours. I random sampled 25 pieces using a Lee Hand Primer and all primers entered with no feeling of brass shavings and as I stated earlier, "A nice firm insertion" just like if you were using New un-primed brass.

But I do use one of GS's shell plates. There is no comparison between the Dillon shell plate and this after market one. There is no play and maybe that is the difference ? I have not tested the Dillon plate, but the GS plate has less than .001" vertical play when set and locked correctly.

Very interesting?!

I just finished processing 4000 LC02 cases on my 650. I size on station 1 90%, swaged on 2, and trimmed and final sized on 4 (Dillon RT1200). I figured I was pulling/pushing the handle anyway, I might as well see how the swager worked. I tested mine with a Lee hand primer. They primed like commercial cases (smooth). I did about 15 cases to see if I was set up ok. Mine worked as advertised, better actually than the last 3000 I had processed by a commercial loader on his 1050.

What I did notice was, if it wasn't screwed in all the way it would short stroke like yours apparently did.

I had to grind an old Craftsman wrench on the bench grinder to be thin enough to screw it in all the way.

Bottom line...it worked great for me. Saved me a BUNCH of time. YMMV!

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

so should you get the gs shell plate to go with the swager. does it make that much of a difference

[RiggerJJ]

so should you get the gs shell plate to go with the swager. does it make that much of a difference

Its already been stated here that using this swager on a 650 will void the warranty. So if its a beefer shellplate, probably should get it.

jmho

jj

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

so should you get the gs shell plate to go with the swager. does it make that much of a difference

Its already been stated here that using this swager on a 650 will void the warranty. So if its a beefer shellplate, probably should get it.

jmho

jj

I currently just use the 600. I was just asking since he stated he ordered the gs shell plate

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[XxWoodsHunterxX]

As I remember Dillon chimed in and said don't use this thing and it will void your warranty... Eventually the maker of 650 swage explained how the product was the best thing since sliced bread and the mods closed/deleted the thread.

We should never speak of such things again (again not really sure why, but undoubtedly the 650 swage is pure evil)

I'm just curious. Why does it void you warranty, because it's aftermarket?

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[mbabin]

I just ordered the swager as I have a lot of 223 brass that I was considering getting 1050 for. Seems like a cheaper test.

Anyway the reason for my post is that the discussion of the shellplate movement and no top support. I am thinking of taking a Lee universal decaper and making a pin insert that can be large enough to cover the flashhole and create that missing top support and remove the shellplate movement. And with the design of the decaper it allows for push through if for some reason hits bottom before expected. I don't know if there is much variation between thickness of the brass base.

Any thoughts on this idea? Perhaps I missed this somewhere but i haven't seen the idea yet.

[RDA]

As I remember Dillon chimed in and said don't use this thing and it will void your warranty... Eventually the maker of 650 swage explained how the product was the best thing since sliced bread and the mods closed/deleted the thread.

We should never speak of such things again (again not really sure why, but undoubtedly the 650 swage is pure evil)

I'm just curious. Why does it void you warranty, because it's aftermarket?

Because Dillon stated that the 650 was not designed for the forces that this swaging imparts on the 650.

[RiggerJJ]

I just ordered the swager as I have a lot of 223 brass that I was considering getting 1050 for. Seems like a cheaper test.

Anyway the reason for my post is that the discussion of the shellplate movement and no top support. I am thinking of taking a Lee universal decaper and making a pin insert that can be large enough to cover the flashhole and create that missing top support and remove the shellplate movement. And with the design of the decaper it allows for push through if for some reason hits bottom before expected. I don't know if there is much variation between thickness of the brass base.

Any thoughts on this idea? Perhaps I missed this somewhere but i haven't seen the idea yet.

Since the swaging tool replaces the primer seater, the swaging operation is done on the up stroke. No dies in the head will be engaging the brass, so a hold down rod will not work.

jj

[RiggerJJ]

As an alternative, I would highly reccommend the Dillon Super Swage, instead of voiding the warranty on a 650.

jmho

jj

Edited April 16, 2014 by RiggerJJ

[Brassaholic13]

You guys just cost me a LOT of money...

I was about to buy one of the Ebay swagers, until I searched and read this thread.

So instead, I just bought a Super 1050 in .223 and it's being shipped to Craig Forcht for an auto drive conversion.

Jeez, thanks guys.

[Tom Freeman]

You guys just cost me a LOT of money...

I was about to buy one of the Ebay swagers, until I searched and read this thread.

So instead, I just bought a Super 1050 in .223 and it's being shipped to Craig Forcht for an auto drive conversion.

Jeez, thanks guys.

Good man. You wont regret it one bit.