Classifier Updates

[sperman]

We get it. You're above the classifier system. Good for you. Many of the dues paying members like to try and win their class at majors. Isn't that the whole reason USPSA created the class system?

Also, please knock it off with the "special olympics" comments. I'm sure those who have family and friends affected by autism and other developmental issues don't really appreciate you using it as a derogatory term.

[motosapiens]

We get it. You're above the classifier system. Good for you. Many of the dues paying members like to try and win their class at majors. Isn't that the whole reason USPSA created the class system?

You don't get it. I'm not at all above the classifier system. I like it. I just relate to it as one of several measuring sticks, and as a way to have some idea of the skill level of people I don't know when perusing the results.

I don't know why uspsa created the class system, but if it is for people's self-esteem, so they can beat other people that don't practice enough, and that makes those people happy, then I guess it's good marketing. IMHO, if you 'win' your class, you are sandbagging by definition, but it doesn't bother me if other people think differently. Heck, some people like reality TV, so it takes all kinds.

Point taken regarding the special olympics. I will find another term to mock with. Do you have any creative suggestions?

[JWGlock26]

I don't care about sandbagging to win my class at a major. I want my class bump that I've worked hard for. That being said if I shoot a major before the next update and win A class because i didn't get my bump it is not fair to the others in A class. Doesn't matter because I'm sure I will tank a classifier or two just enough to hurt me before the next update and not get the bump then.

[PKT1106]

The rule book states that the classifiers are updated sometime between the 10th and 15th of each month. Here is no stipulation for certain matches, whatever the level. As far as I am concerned, the classifications need to be the most up to date they can, especially for nationals. It does a disservice to everyone if someone is shooting in a lower class just because Sedro decided to wait.

[Ssanders224]

I don't care about sandbagging to win my class at a major. I want my class bump that I've worked hard for. That being said if I shoot a major before the next update and win A class because i didn't get my bump it is not fair to the others in A class. Doesn't matter because I'm sure I will tank a classifier or two just enough to hurt me before the next update and not get the bump then.

Pretty much in the exact same boat as this guy^^^^

Ive worked hard for my M card, and was looking forward to it, yes I'm impatient. Furthermore, I'll shoot two majors over the next several weeks in a lower classification than my real averages would represent had they been updated.

However, like Bdub said, I'm over it at this point. Nothing I can do about, and I dont believe it will change.

[steel1212]

Damn I knew I should have gone to nationals...I wouldn't get my bump and I could have sandbagged the heck out of it!!!

[JakeMartens]

Instead of complaining on here you should be sending emails and contacting the folks that need to answer to its members

Directors & Officers

President

Phil Strader

president@uspsa.org

Voice: +1 (703) 786-3791

Fax - (918) 274-1565 *call in advance*

Vice President/NROI Director

John Amidon

dnroi@uspsa.org

vp@uspsa.org

Fax: +1 (315) 458-4053

Executive Director

Kim Williams

Ext. 107

kim@uspsa.org

USPSA Area Directors

Area 1

Chuck Anderson

Area1@uspsa.org

+1 (503) 453-3781

Area 2

Chris Endersby

Area2@uspsa.org

+1 (949) 369-5648 Home

+1(949) 230-6628 Cell

Area 3

Sherwyn Greenfield

Area3@uspsa.org

+1 (712) 330-0598

Area4

Troy McManus

Area4@uspsa.org

+1 (225) 205-4797

Area 5

Kyle Farris

Area5@uspsa.org

+1 (614) 434-8671

Area 6

Linda Chico

Area6@uspsa.org

+1 803-629-7095

Area 7

David Bold

Area7@uspsa.org

+1 (508) 763-8681

Area 8

Harry Foltz

Area8@uspsa.org

+1 (609) 214-6651

[JWGlock26]

I was just informed that the update that they run on sept 30th after back to back nationals will still use the cut off date of sept 10 for classifiers being submitted. This alleviates my concern of shooting a low classifier in the next couple weeks and it affecting my bump. I still think its crazy that the update requires the manpower that it does but I'm better now.

[motosapiens]

I was just informed that the update that they run on sept 30th after back to back nationals will still use the cut off date of sept 10 for classifiers being submitted. This alleviates my concern of shooting a low classifier in the next couple weeks and it affecting my bump. I still think its crazy that the update requires the manpower that it does but I'm better now.

Perhaps a more likely explanation is that they want to avoid the drama that comes when the other C's discover that the guy that wins the motorhome for being 1st place C at nationals has actually been a B for several weeks.

[JWGlock26]

Not sure why you quoted my post for your motorhome joke because as I state above, I couldn't care less about class wins at a match. If i did I would be happy about the update not happening. I shoot every match, local or major, for the division win and compare myself to the division winner. I want my bump because the classification system is there and I've enjoyed progressing up it.

[motosapiens]

Not sure why you quoted my post for your motorhome joke because as I state above, I couldn't care less about class wins at a match. If i did I would be happy about the update not happening. I shoot every match, local or major, for the division win and compare myself to the division winner. I want my bump because the classification system is there and I've enjoyed progressing up it.

I quoted your post because you posted some information, and I posted a possible explanation for that information. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by responding. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you were in the running for the motorhome, or even enjoyed camping. The point was simply that by delaying the update, any ambiguity or confusion regarding what class one is actually competing in is swept under the rug.

Edited September 17, 2013 by motosapiens

[dirty whiteboy]

So much for getting classified in Open before the NC Sectional. Oh, well, I've been told I have no class before.

[CZinSC]

Oh, well, I've been told I have no class before.

That right there is the most accurate statement in this entire thread.

[sperman]

He has class, at least when he brings Tracy around.

[beltjones]

It's pretty sad that we've set the bar so low for USPSA leadership and management that we still accept that a monthly classifier update requires manual data entry and so many man-hours that it can't be done simultaneously with organizing a Nationals match.

[Nik Habicht]

Just found out about this and don't mind saying that I'm pissed. I've been within half of a percent of making master for 5 months and finally have the classifier scores to make it with this update. Now they aren't doing an update.

Funny, I'm not reading it that way......

September classification update

Please note that USPSA is following its standard practice of not posting the September classification update until after the Open/Limited/Limited 10 Nationals are over. As was stated on the slot forms, USPSA is using the August classifications for these matches. To eliminate confusion as to what classes are current during the matches, USPSA does not post the September update until the matches are finished.

Nothing there says that the update wasn't run -- just that it won't post until late in September.....

[Nik Habicht]

It's pretty sad that we've set the bar so low for USPSA leadership and management that we still accept that a monthly classifier update requires manual data entry and so many man-hours that it can't be done simultaneously with organizing a Nationals match.

I don't know that it's that......

I do know that there are issues. If you run a major that starts on the 11th and concludes on the 14th, and USPSA updates the database on Friday the 12th, which classifications do you use for the match? Does everyone compete under the newest classifications? Under the oldest? Under whatever classification they were at the time they fired their first (or last) shot?

I'm not in love with USPSA's decision to utilize a prior month's classifications -- but I also don't see any alternatives that are guaranteed to be better.....

And if you argue for latest classification, then stats will need to update the records of competitors entered into the match database. That's not an insurmountable problem, but doing it on deadline, on a potentially remote range, when there are 1,000 other things to attend to in prepping for the match, might be asking for too much.....

Or not? I certainly don't have all the answers -- but then I have yet to see someone propose an alternative, and back that up with all of the answers....

[PKT1106]

Match starts on the 11th and ends on the 14th and classifiers updated on the 12th, you use the latest classification for everyone when the first shot is fired. That is the most up to date, official info you have at the beginning of the match. No speculation, no "wait a day or two".

[motosapiens]

It's pretty sad that we've set the bar so low for USPSA leadership and management that we still accept that a monthly classifier update requires manual data entry and so many man-hours that it can't be done simultaneously with organizing a Nationals match.

I have to take exception to that comment. Even if I personally don't see/understand the reasoning for this particular action, I've competed seriously in a variety of different sports over my lifetime, and USPSA stands head and shoulders above every other amateur sports organization I can think of, in professionalism, dedication, competence, and a bunch of other nouns. Yeah, I don't always get my way, but I'm pretty confident there's a good reason, even if I may not fully understand it.

(besides, I'm hoping to win the motorhome for 1st place C in L10, lol, unless someone sandbags even harder than me).

[Shadyscott999]

Oh, well, I've been told I have no class before.

That right there is the most accurate statement in this entire thread.

Yes, yes it is.

[Strick]

It's pretty sad that we've set the bar so low for USPSA leadership and management that we still accept that a monthly classifier update requires manual data entry and so many man-hours that it can't be done simultaneously with organizing a Nationals match.

I don't know that it's that......

I do know that there are issues. If you run a major that starts on the 11th and concludes on the 14th, and USPSA updates the database on Friday the 12th, which classifications do you use for the match? Does everyone compete under the newest classifications? Under the oldest? Under whatever classification they were at the time they fired their first (or last) shot?

I'm not in love with USPSA's decision to utilize a prior month's classifications -- but I also don't see any alternatives that are guaranteed to be better.....

And if you argue for latest classification, then stats will need to update the records of competitors entered into the match database. That's not an insurmountable problem, but doing it on deadline, on a potentially remote range, when there are 1,000 other things to attend to in prepping for the match, might be asking for too much.....

Or not? I certainly don't have all the answers -- but then I have yet to see someone propose an alternative, and back that up with all of the answers....

What does that have to do with a match that starts on the 22nd or the 26th (7 or 11 days after the classification is run)?

As the argument goes every year......why does USPSA not want the people participating in the match the competing under their earned classification?

[Nik Habicht]

Match starts on the 11th and ends on the 14th and classifiers updated on the 12th, you use the latest classification for everyone when the first shot is fired. That is the most up to date, official info you have at the beginning of the match. No speculation, no "wait a day or two".

Why wouldn't I want to use the classifications from the database run on the 12th? Since scores had to be into HQ on the 10th, aren't the new classifications really representative of the shooter's abilities? They're based on classifiers shot and received by HQ before the match started, and are clearly the most current, so they should be used.......

I can make an argument for any of the scenarios.....

Someone has to decide -- making the decision on the basis of workload is as valid an argument as any I've seen.....

[JakeMartens]

Why isnt the process automated?

If they are using practiscore what extra labor is there?

the only thing that needs to be on a shooters label is their competitor's number. Everything else is in the database

an update should be ran the morning of registration, a process that take s a matter of moments.

the only thing that is causing any hold ups is whatever dated technology in place in hq.

it is the fact that they still allow mailed in classifier paperwork. It is time to say uploads only, online payment only and move forward.

Edited September 18, 2013 by JakeMartens

[ericjhuber]

There is an official update on this from USPSA Intergalactic HQ now. I'm just Johnny Newguy so I don't think I've earned the right to have a strong opinion on this yet. However, it seems reasonable to call a halt before the Nationals to keep things from getting complicated for the staff and competitors especially in light of the fact that this is largely a volunteer sport.

I'll admit I was hoping it would run this week since if I have done my math correctly, I'll be going from unclassified to C in Production based on the results of the recent classifier match. However, it's more of a case of impatience on my part than any real need to see it done quickly. It's not like there is any risk of me getting into a Nationals anytime soon and the Level II matches start firing up later in the year here in Florida once things start to cool down a bit.

Edited September 18, 2013 by ericjhuber

[Strick]

There are parts of that release that are just mind boggling.

They say the follow "standard practice"....I would like them to just follow the rulebook and run them on the 15th of each month.

It is mentioned that this is what is indicated on the slot forms...........I didn't get a slot form, and didn't' realize I need to find one to be educated on the rules.

And lastly, they don't like to do it a week or more before Nationals because USPSA HQ can't keep up with the changes..........does that stop them from running them a day or 2 before any other Level II or higher match where they are not the actual match administration?