IDPA legal production guns - New Rules

[Onagoth]

Does anyone have a list of the autos that are now SSP legal?...or will be SSP legal when the new rules kick in?

Thanks,

Edited August 8, 2013 by Onagoth

[cnote]

are u talking ssp???

[Onagoth]

Yes....production, ssp, stock....all kind of have the same meaning to me, but I edited the original post to be clear.

Thanks

Edited August 8, 2013 by Onagoth

[robertbank]

Matt there is no list of approved guns for IDPA Divisions. I don;t believe there ever has been. Each Divisions equipment requirements are listed in the new rule book located here: idpa.com

Take Care

Bob

[Paul-the new guy]

8.2.1.1.

Handguns permitted for use in SSP must:

8.2.1.1.1.

Have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units.

8.2.1.1.2.

Be semi-automatic.

8.2.1.1.3.

Be double action, double action only, or striker fired.

8.2.1.1.4.

Be 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber.

8.2.1.1.5.

The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz/1219.0 grams or less.

8.2.1.1.6.

The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾" x 6" x 1 5/8".

8.2.1.2.

Start Condition:

8.2.1.2.1.

Selective DA/SA firearms will start hammer down.

8.2.1.2.2.

Firearms with a decocking lever or button will be decocked using the lever or button.

8.2.1.2.3.

If the hammer must be lowered by pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer, the hammer will be lowered to the lowest position possible.

8.2.1.2.4.

In SSP, manual safeties may be engaged at the shooter’s discretion.

8.2.1.3.

SSP Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):

8.2.1.3.1.

Sights may be changed to another notch and post type but slides may not be machined to accept different style sights in SSP. - 32 -

8.2.1.3.2.

Grips may be changed to another style or material that is similar to factory configuration and do not weigh more than 2.00 oz/56.7 grams more than the factory standard weight for that model.

8.2.1.3.3.

Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, decocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements.

8.2.1.3.4.

Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel.

8.2.1.3.5.

Frames may be replaced with identical frames from the same manufacturer.

8.2.1.3.6.

A slip-on grip sock and/or skateboard tape may be used.

8.2.1.3.7.

Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications allowed).

8.2.1.3.8.

Internal reliability work.

8.2.1.3.9.

Aftermarket extractors and pins may be used.

8.2.1.3.10.

Internal accuracy work.

8.2.1.3.11.

Replacement of barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.

8.2.1.3.12.

Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the magazine well.

8.2.1.3.13.

Custom finishes may be applied.

8.2.1.3.14.

Stock slide cover plates may be refinished.

8.2.1.3.15.

Slides may be engraved. Engraving is defined as etching into the slide of logos, letters, and graphics no deeper than the original factory logos.

8.2.1.3.16.

Stippling and texturing may be performed on readily replaceable parts of the grip frame such as replaceable back straps and replaceable grip panels.

8.2.1.3.17.

Aftermarket magazines may be used provided they do not weigh more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.18.

Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used provided they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.19.

Magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping, texturing, or adding bumper pads provided that they do not make the magazine weigh more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.20.

Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements

[Onagoth]

I know this...

What I am wondering, because I have not researched all the information on all the pistols out there, is which ones are now legal in SSP because of these rule changes.

Ie, I've heard that the Stock II is now legal in SSP, but I can't seem to find the weight of the Stock II (stupid work filters our internet searching).

I kinda hoped someone knew off the top of their head what ones can now play in SSP in IDPA.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Onagoth

[Paul-the new guy]

There is no list. If it meets all of the rules above it is legal

[Onagoth]

Let me word this another way....does anyone know, off the top of their head, what guns wouldn't be SSP legal before, but now are.

I can think of one, the CZ SP01 shadow (completely) stock did not make weight before, but does now.

[steel1212]

Let me word this another way....does anyone know, off the top of their head, what guns wouldn't be SSP legal before, but now are.

I can think of one, the CZ SP01 shadow (completely) stock did not make weight before, but does now.

No because there is a infinite amount of different guns out there. For instance a stock tactical sport isn't legal. My tactical sport is how ever but far from stock.

[bikerburgess]

Let me word this another way....does anyone know, off the top of their head, what guns wouldn't be SSP legal before, but now are.

I can think of one, the CZ SP01 shadow (completely) stock did not make weight before, but does now.

Is it? it may make weight but do they produce 2000 a year?

Also where does one get the production numbers to show their gun is legal? or is it up to the discretion of the match director?

[kaiserb]

Let me word this another way....does anyone know, off the top of their head, what guns wouldn't be SSP legal before, but now are.

I can think of one, the CZ SP01 shadow (completely) stock did not make weight before, but does now.

Springfield XDs (any striker fired action is now legal in SSP)

[steel1212]

Let me word this another way....does anyone know, off the top of their head, what guns wouldn't be SSP legal before, but now are.

I can think of one, the CZ SP01 shadow (completely) stock did not make weight before, but does now.

Is it? it may make weight but do they produce 2000 a year?

Also where does one get the production numbers to show their gun is legal? or is it up to the discretion of the match director?

I doubt you'll get those numbers. Hell look at the FN saga. Also it just says produced. Doesn't say anything about in the US and the shadow isn't just a US gun.

[GmanCdp]

Just shoot what you think is right and within the rules.. In 14 years,I have never ever seen or heard of a SO at a major match telling a shooter, sorry, they only made 1500 of these and you cant shoot.. I have seen SSP [shooters]guns get DQ'd for ESP features, and no you just cannot be switched to ESP at a major match and shoot for score.

[hkguy]

basically XD's and XDm's can be shot in ssp, other uncommon guns like the HK P7's can be shot in SSP too!

[stick]

8.2.1.1.

Handguns permitted for use in SSP must:

8.2.1.1.1.

Have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units.

8.2.1.1.2.

Be semi-automatic.

8.2.1.1.3.

Be double action, double action only, or striker fired.

8.2.1.1.4.

Be 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber.

8.2.1.1.5.

The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz/1219.0 grams or less.

8.2.1.1.6.

The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 ¾" x 6" x 1 5/8".

8.2.1.2.

Start Condition:

8.2.1.2.1.

Selective DA/SA firearms will start hammer down.

8.2.1.2.2.

Firearms with a decocking lever or button will be decocked using the lever or button.

8.2.1.2.3.

If the hammer must be lowered by pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer, the hammer will be lowered to the lowest position possible.

8.2.1.2.4.

In SSP, manual safeties may be engaged at the shooter’s discretion.

8.2.1.3.

SSP Permitted Modifications (Inclusive list):

8.2.1.3.1.

Sights may be changed to another notch and post type but slides may not be machined to accept different style sights in SSP. - 32 -

8.2.1.3.2.

Grips may be changed to another style or material that is similar to factory configuration and do not weigh more than 2.00 oz/56.7 grams more than the factory standard weight for that model.

8.2.1.3.3.

Magazine releases, slide stops, safety levers, decocking levers, hammers, and triggers, that are stock on one SSP legal firearm may be used on another SSP legal firearm from the same manufacturer provided they are drop in replacements.

8.2.1.3.4.

Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel.

8.2.1.3.5.

Frames may be replaced with identical frames from the same manufacturer.

8.2.1.3.6.

A slip-on grip sock and/or skateboard tape may be used.

8.2.1.3.7.

Internal action work may be used to enhance trigger pull as long as safety is maintained (no visible external modifications allowed).

8.2.1.3.8.

Internal reliability work.

8.2.1.3.9.

Aftermarket extractors and pins may be used.

8.2.1.3.10.

Internal accuracy work.

8.2.1.3.11.

Replacement of barrel with one of factory configuration and original caliber.

8.2.1.3.12.

Plastic plugs may be used to fill the opening behind the magazine well.

8.2.1.3.13.

Custom finishes may be applied.

8.2.1.3.14.

Stock slide cover plates may be refinished.

8.2.1.3.15.

Slides may be engraved. Engraving is defined as etching into the slide of logos, letters, and graphics no deeper than the original factory logos.

8.2.1.3.16.

Stippling and texturing may be performed on readily replaceable parts of the grip frame such as replaceable back straps and replaceable grip panels.

8.2.1.3.17.

Aftermarket magazines may be used provided they do not weigh more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.18.

Aftermarket magazine base pads may be used provided they do not make the magazine weight more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.19.

Magazine base pads may be modified by reshaping, texturing, or adding bumper pads provided that they do not make the magazine weigh more than 1.00 oz/28.3 grams over the same capacity factory magazine.

8.2.1.3.20.

Magazines that are longer than stock may be used provided they meet all other division requirements

Exactly what he said. There is no comprehensive list of guns that are IDPA legal.

[ac4wordplay]

8.2.1.1.

Handguns permitted for use in SSP must:

8.2.1.1.1.

Have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units. Without a list provided by IDPA HQ, how is every/any SO or MD expected to accurately/correctly enforce this rule?

... <snip>

Emphasis (above) is mine, with my comment in red.

So very poorly conceived/implemented.

Edited August 13, 2013 by ac4wordplay

[Paul-the new guy]

8.2.1.1.

Handguns permitted for use in SSP must:

8.2.1.1.1.

Have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units. Discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units. Without a list provided by IDPA HQ, how is every/any SO or MD expected to accurately/correctly enforce this rule?

... <snip>

Emphasis (above) is mine, with my comment in red.

So very poorly conceived/implemented.

No way...

[Onagoth]

I recently got in a big discussion/argument about that exact rule on another forum.

Some other MDs/SOs didn't like it when I said that its unenforceable in its current form.

Another SO/MD even went so far to suggest that if a competitor can't prove annual production volumes for the gun he is using, then we would not be shooting for score.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Onagoth

[Butterpuc]

I have never been a part of the rules teams, but I believe the intent is to keep someone from producing a "custom" SSP pistol. I don't think they want to have to manage a "production list".

I remember looking at the CZ SP01's a couple of years ago... It seems like one of them had an alloy frame and the other a steel frame. The alloy frame I thought made weight for SSP but the steel frame didn't. However I thought the steel frame made the weight for ESP, which now means it should make weight for SSP.

It looks like the CZ SP01 is SSP legal. I recommend finding the exact weight of one (with an empty magazine) before you purchase one. If you are solely purchasing it to compete in IDPA SSP. If you already have it, find a friend how had a small scale, or go pick one up at Walmart ~$20. I think you will be alright, looking at the website, the steel frame is 38.4 oz, the typical magazine weights ~4 oz.

[Onagoth]

CZ SP-01 shadow makes weight in SSP going forward.

It could make weight even under the old rules with the right (legal) modifications

[levelgrind]

Is undercutting your Glock triggerguard illegal/change your class in IDPA? Im new to it and I wanted to know before I did it and limited my options. But, I just love the way it feels in my hands and I am torn.

What are your thoughts?

[Jim Watson]

That is an external modification that pretty well defines ESP. Not allowed in SSP.

[Stician]

Is undercutting your Glock triggerguard illegal/change your class in IDPA? Im new to it and I wanted to know before I did it and limited my options. But, I just love the way it feels in my hands and I am torn.

What are your thoughts?

It would fall under ESP. Don't be discouraged because IDPA has recognized stage times between SSP and ESP are very similar dictated by rounds in mag. Grip work, light mag well and tritop slide hardly an edge in the hands of someone that can close a Captains of crush 1.5.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Stician

[J-Rob]

So, if I undercut my trigger guard I might as well stipple/texture the whole grip because I'll be in ESP anyway?

[Stician]

Is undercutting your Glock triggerguard illegal/change your class in IDPA? Im new to it and I wanted to know before I did it and limited my options. But, I just love the way it feels in my hands and I am torn.

What are your thoughts?

It would fall under ESP. Don't be discouraged because IDPA has recognized stage times between SSP and ESP are very similar dictated by rounds in mag. Grip work, light mag well and tritop slide hardly an edge in the hands of someone that can close a Captains of crush 1.5.

What if this CoC person is vision impaired! LOL, I always thought the huge glock mag opening is hard to miss but can see the advantage of running a magwell on a single stack in ESP and CDP. I've heard mods provide a margin for error due to Murphy's law not necessarily a time advantage.