Single Stack Division question

[timawa]

This is a newbie question so I ask you guys for knowledge and learning. In IDPA, when changing mags, dropping empty mag in the ground is not allowed. Either you put it in your pocket or back in the pouch. How about in USPSA specially in Single Stack category? Are you allowed to drop empty mag in the ground to reload or the same in IDPA?

Thanks for help.

[GrumpyOne]

Drop empty, drop full, doesn't matter. There is no ammo retention requirements.

[Chris iliff]

USPSA is freestyle. You solve the puzzle. So.......... Drop your mags and keep gunning baby!!! If ya want.

[ParaGunner]

Drop all the mags you want. I suggest you have 6 mags for SS in uspsa because the stages will be a lot bigger than idpa stages.

[blind bat]

In IDPA dropping an empty mag is allowed provided the chamber is also empty (usually the slide is locked back).

[ericjhuber]

Let those mags fly in USPSA. One of the things I enjoy about USPSA is the problem solving that comes with dealing with a stage. I'm learning how to approach stages to minimize my time so I can maximize the power factor. For example, one of the many things I've learned from watching Ben Stoeger's YouTube channel is that standing reloads are just death on your score. I'm doing Production now, but I'm planning on doing Single Stack next to make things even more challenging from a stage planning standpoint.

[CHARLES D]

There are plenty of videos on you tube to watch. A common one is under USPSA WSSSC (Western States Single Stack Championship). The only thing Single Stack has in common with IDPA is where the holster and ammo pouches are located on the belt. Drop and Go.

[perrysho]

Another piece of INFO !

Here in the Tn Valley having a Double Stack ( high Dollar) over a single stack is not an advantage most of the time, regardless of class.

The Owners, RO, MDs, throw in mandatory re-loads to level the field or/and they shoot single stack. Who Knows !

Different strokes for different folks, about everywhere you go.

One of the big shots in Floridia last week had a 10 round limit on mags all classes. (Per a shooter that shot it.) (Second hand info check it out.)

Just do and shot whatever works for you, and be SAFE.

Perry

[timawa]

This is a newbie question so I ask you guys for knowledge and learning. In IDPA, when changing mags, dropping empty mag in the ground is not allowed. Either you put it in your pocket or back in the pouch. How about in USPSA specially in Single Stack category? Are you allowed to drop empty mag in the ground to reload or the same in IDPA?

Thanks for help.

I want to add one more question, I mean two. Does mag pouch need to be vertically positioned or can be canted? And how many magazines do you usually carry?

Thank you again for the replies.

[perrysho]

timawa,

None seem excited to answer your question, I'll try.

Go to www.idpa.com page 36 of the rule book.

Ammo Carriers start there. must conform to all day carry type and secure the mag in an upside down position. Cover 2" inches of the mag measureing from the mag feed lips. And be worn on a standard belt no wider than 1 3/4".

I have seen them worn different ways, but that will depend on where you are, owners, ROs and MDs seem to wanna do things their way.

Now don't ye know IDPA has Rules Lawyers ready to swoop down and fine you with a PE or hanging. LOL

If your somewhere you have not shot before just ASK !

Some places / local shots they kinda mix IDPA & USPSA rules, gives em more stuff to argue about. LOL

Have FUN, Be SAFE,

Ask if in doubt.

Perry

OH ! tie down your money and change when em Rules Lawyers stand you on your head to check if your mags fall out. LMAO

[frag316]

This is a newbie question so I ask you guys for knowledge and learning. In IDPA, when changing mags, dropping empty mag in the ground is not allowed. Either you put it in your pocket or back in the pouch. How about in USPSA specially in Single Stack category? Are you allowed to drop empty mag in the ground to reload or the same in IDPA?

Thanks for help.

I want to add one more question, I mean two. Does mag pouch need to be vertically positioned or can be canted? And how many magazines do you usually carry?

Thank you again for the replies.

I shoot Single Stack exclusively right now, so here are the differences I've seen between IDPA CDP and USPSA Single Stack:

Reloads are whenever you want, no requirements for cover or retention or anything like that. NOTE: As I've grown in the division, I try to shoot as deeply into the magazine as possible--not to say I won't dump a mag with six rounds left in it, if the stage design calls for it, but if you can minimize the number of reloads and not do standing reloads, it helps a lot. You'll burn time reaching for the third mag on your belt more than reaching for the second.

I carry five primary magazines, a barney mag, and the mag I'm going to shoot on a loaded start on my belt when I get to the start position. When I get "Load and make ready," I pull the barney, chamber a round, drop it, then seat the mag I'm starting with. I have five single mag holders on my belt with rounds facing forward and a double in the small of my back. The first mag in the double is my barney, the second is my starting magazine (so I'm shooting with one pouch position open on a loaded start), and both magazines are facing opposite of my reloads.

Mags and holster must be positioned behind the front of the hip bones (there's a diagram in the USPSA rulebook in Appendix E3). Appendix D5 has the rules for Single Stack Division. http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf is the link. I suppose you could cant the magazines within the Appendix rules, but I'm not sure there's much advantage to doing so (I don't often see people do it). I carry my magazines vertically. You can have two inches of space between the inside of the inner belt and the side of the magazine or gun (Appendix E2 shows the measurement).

Single Stack guns can weigh two ounces more than a CDP gun (43 for USPSA and 41 for CDP, if memory serves).

The gun must be carried so the trigger area is covered and the entire front strap of the gun is above the belt (for men, it's different for women).

No race holsters authorized. No magnets to hold the magazines authorized.

One other thing--don't go to your front pockets for a magazine (many people put their barney mags there), or you get bumped to Open. The reason I carry so many magazines is so that I don't have to put any into my pockets, and don't have to worry about this rule.

I can't think of much else.

[glandry51]

If you are moving, you are reloading!

[frag316]

Not necessarily. I used to think that, too, but it pays to really break down the stage well. You can follow the Production guys and get ideas from them, but if you're shooting major, they have two more rounds than you.

That means at least one reload they don't have. It also means you may take targets in a different order, because you don't have their mag capacity.

But you may find instances where you're dumping a one or two round mag, where lots of people would think you should dump a three or four round magazine.

[Tommy T]

This is a newbie question so I ask you guys for knowledge and learning. In IDPA, when changing mags, dropping empty mag in the ground is not allowed. Either you put it in your pocket or back in the pouch. How about in USPSA specially in Single Stack category? Are you allowed to drop empty mag in the ground to reload or the same in IDPA?

Thanks for help.

I want to add one more question, I mean two. Does mag pouch need to be vertically positioned or can be canted? And how many magazines do you usually carry?

Thank you again for the replies.

I shoot Single Stack exclusively right now, so here are the differences I've seen between IDPA CDP and USPSA Single Stack:

One other thing--don't go to your front pockets for a magazine (many people put their barney mags there), or you get bumped to Open. The reason I carry so many magazines is so that I don't have to put any into my pockets, and don't have to worry about this rule.

I can't think of much else.

Could you expound a little more on the rule you mention, about getting bumped to Open Division if you load from a pocket? I scanned the USPSA rule book for it, but didn't spot it. Perhaps I overlooked it? Could you please cite the specific reg that details it. For example: Rule 5.2.3.1, or Appendix D5 - Item 12, or Appendix E3.

I wouldn't bother you with this, but I plan to compete in the Texas State SS Championship match, at San Antonio, in a few weeks; and I would hate to get blind-sided by some rule like that, which I have never heard of.

Good Luck and Good Shooting,

Tommy

[poolguy]

It would only be a bump to open if you drew a mag from a position prohibited by SS division rules after the beep. At the start signal all equip has to be division compliant. Perfectly ok to have a Barney mag in any pocket.

[frag316]

Sorry, I should have been clearer--Poolguy is right. Before the beep, use any mag you want from anywhere. After the beep, don't go to your front pockets for a mag.

[Tommy T]

Thanks for the replies, and the clarification. I'm glad to hear it!

:-)

Tommy

[pskys2]

FWIW To be on the safe side, I don't put any mags in my front pockets anymore. In the heat of the moment it's easy to forget and shove one in a front pocket and then at the end of a COF, after I've screwed up, ran out of ammo and am flustered and befuddled to pull that mag out and use it.

So I don't do it in any Division just so I won't be tempted.

[frag316]

The rule is from Appendix D5 #12, which refers you to Appendix E3, which shows the placement of magazines and holster behind the front of the hip bones. Because using a magazine from any other location would bump you to another division, you automatically get bumped to the least restrictive division (Open).

[dmd6x]

I have five single mag holders on my belt with rounds facing forward and a double in the small of my back. The first mag in the double is my barney, the second is my starting magazine (so I'm shooting with one pouch position open on a loaded start), and both magazines are facing opposite of my reloads.

Why wouldn't you pull your barney and loaded-start mag from your most rear-ward mag pouch? If you're not on the clock, might as well use the mags that are the farthest away, leaving your most forward / closest mags for when time counts?

[Poppa Bear]

Many people keep a magazine just for the barney in their back pocket. After that many take the rearward most magazine to finish loading to capacity. Others barney off the 5th of 6 mags and then use the 6th mag to top off. There are many ways to do it but most try to start with the hardest to reach mag in the gun first and then go front to back with the reloads. It is just a matter of where the barney mag comes from.

[frag316]

I have five single mag holders on my belt with rounds facing forward and a double in the small of my back. The first mag in the double is my barney, the second is my starting magazine (so I'm shooting with one pouch position open on a loaded start), and both magazines are facing opposite of my reloads.

Why wouldn't you pull your barney and loaded-start mag from your most rear-ward mag pouch? If you're not on the clock, might as well use the mags that are the farthest away, leaving your most forward / closest mags for when time counts?

Uhh, I do. The five single mag holders are my "on-the-clock" reloads. The double mag holder in the small of my back are the barney and start mag positions, respectively. The one pouch position that's open on the loaded start is the last (seventh) magazine pouch position, or the right one (if you're standing behind me) on the double mag pouch.

If the start is unloaded with all mags on the belt and I have to run for the gun, I grab my last pouch position on the run. If it's an unloaded start with all mags on the belt and I'm next to the gun, I grab the first reload but switch the position of my barney and normal start mag so I can grab the full mag if I happen to need it.

[dmd6x]

Makes sense, I miss read.